Dies to Removal

Looks like I finalized my list for GP Phoenix. Heading out tomorrow morning.

[deck]4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Young Pyromancer

3 Chained to the Rocks

4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
3 Searing Blood
3 Shock
4 Skullcrack
4 Warleader's Helix

1 Blood Crypt
2 Boros Guildgate
7 Mountain
3 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
1 Temple of Malice
1 Temple of Silence
4 Temple of Triumph

Sideboard
2 Assemble the Legion
2 Blind Obedience
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Chained to the Rocks
1 Glare of Heresy
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Spark Trooper
3 Toil/Trouble
1 Wear/Tear[/deck]

Full Report to be posted either Monday or Tuesday when I am back home.

I really like this sideboard but I have my concerns vs UWx/Esper control. I
guess -3 searing blood -2 chains +3 toil/trouble +1 wear/tear +1 glare + 1 chandra? Adding back another chained if necessary (or BO vs. Obzedat)

Have not had time to test, registered this for the 1K:

[deck]
Sideboard
4 Mizzium Mortars
[/deck]

The hell?

How'd our other GP Phoenix people do? 6-3 here with the knock out in round 7.

How'd our other GP Phoenix people do? 6-3 here with the knock out in round 7.

4-3 drop. Was struck with pretty bad variance in all my matches having to mull to 5 in a majority of them. Match ups were all over the place.

Another 6-0 wih MDUs burn.

Have not had time to test, registered this for the 1K:

[deck]
Sideboard
4 Mizzium Mortars
[/deck]

The hell?

"..."

Took NerdBoyWonder's decklist he is using for GP Phoenix to my LGS.
Changes: -1 Mutavault, -4 Sacred Foundry, +2 Boros Guidgate, +3 Mountain.

Deck still ran like a champ, even with the change of mana.

Faced MBC (2-0), Rakdos Aggro (2-0), and a JUND Superfriend Thing (2-1).

I apologize for my last post, I did not mean any disrespect or to take ownership of the deck that you all have worked hard to make so great. I don't get to play as often as most of you do and truly appreciate your expertise with this deck.

Hi gents, just wanted to add some remarks from my personal testing. I've switched the Ash Zealots for Pyromancers for testing, and have done a couple of matches against UW Control, Esper Midrange, one game against Jund Monsters which is hardly representative and the mirror. My list is exactly the same as NerdBoyWonders list except I'm playing with a mountain instead of the Crypt since I haven't been able to get my hands on them yet. A couple of things I noticed:

- The Pyromancer seems to do a lot more work than the Zealot from my limited experience, it's less aggressive but it's a lot less 'risky' in a sense. The Zealot wasn't too good against creature decks seeing their creatures are bigger and I usually got blown out by tricks. It's also harder on the mana, I definately had a couple of games where I couldn't get it out early enough for it to do work. The Pyromancer lets you block without being as prone to being
blown out, and the tokens can get past a wall of mana creatures from the Monsters deck or hold back aggro a bit longer. Pyromancer is definately a lot worse as topdeck or by himself without mana open for another spell, but his flexibility seemed a lot better. It seemed pretty awful in the mirror though, I'm guessing you board out everything except Phoenix to give them less Searing Blood targets? Pyromancer definately gave my opponent more opportunities to smack me for 3 in the face.

- I liked the two extra Temples in the manabase. They didn't seem to slow the deck down that much if I sequenced my spells properly although I didn't get in enough games to test the manabase properly or see what the impact of running 8 temples or Blood Crypts would be.

- I had issues with the UW matchup as he ran a lot more counters compared to the Esper lists I've seen. How do you guys deal with an opponent who doesn't tap out unless he can do so while holding up counter mana? It def felt like he had a counter for
every card I played, and that having creatures would have helped. I've had less trouble with other control lists as they had to tap out more often, giving me more of an opening.

- The Esper midrange deck is the Mihara one. I tried treating it as fighting B/W Midrange, which def seems to work although what got me when facing it was needing to have specific answers to their late-game cards, being Desecration Demon, Blood Baron and Obzedat. Would it be best to board in a mix of removal spells (between Mortars, Chains and Blind Obedience as kind of removal) or is there a way to approach the matchup I'm not seeing? I wasn't sure about having Assemble as the Esper lists do run Detention Sphere.

I'll search through the advice and videos in this thread on how to approach these specific matchups, I cannot recall anyone mentioning but it's more likely I skimmed past it.

Overall I've been having a lot of fun with the deck, so thanks for the continuous testing and research!

I'm glad your having success with a deck now Pedros (it won't be long until you over take me, esp. since I can't play until end of this week (darn you RL))

Although I can't play I'll like to discuss deck theories with those who are using my list:

1) SFD vs MM:

Lets think about this: vs Monsters, Esper Midrange, Aggro and Ux Devotion what are you cutting? How would Golgari Charm or Pain // Loss make you feel if you had SFD and YP$ in play? Use that conclusion too make your choice.

2) Manabase: Should we run 2x Mountains over 2x Gates? 2x Mountain means we're more open too PE however it will give us more untapped land which is important for T3 and 4 (with our current 10 we only have 81% chance of hitting one on T3 and 86% on T4 - they're decent odds esp. if you factor in "scry"). The reason
why I run gates is because I've been **** over by colors during deciding matches much too often which is why I'm running my current base, that said in the grand scales of things I've only died 3-4 four times - compare that with the number of games won you'll notice that I'm clearly overreacting thus I won't fault anyone in cutting the gates.

3) 3rd Assemble the Legion vs 2nd Chandra, Pyromaster SB: Assemble is a very expensive card so you don't want to see it in your opening hand or early draws - HOWEVER you do want to see it on the curve (I hate seeing 2 in my hand if my opp. doesn't discard it, I hate not seeing 1 on my 5th land drop) what would you guys pick and why? I'm leaning more on 2 Assemble because we're running so much "scry" and I want room for more cards to hate on Rx, UWx, Ux and Bx.

4) BO vs PE: I won't say BO is better then PE or vice visa since PE is MANY times better against Hexproof, Burn and arguably Gr Monster (I prefer BO vs Junk and Jund) - but BO helps you
win games you CAN'T win like for example Whip into Ghost-dad, or Whip into dredge, whilst still being decent against Burn and Monsters (with 14 sources to activate it in our version its even better).

5) 1x Chandra, Pyromaster MD or toss it into the SB: "if people see a card in G1 - they are prepped for it G2 whereas if you bring the card in it can wrongfoot them - B may have taken out all the HDF for example" - quoted from someone awesome. I'm personally in favor of running Pyromaster MD because I like having the option to go on the "defend the queen plan", if for example the Bx deck keeps HDF as a result - then my creatures will have a better time attacking him or his SB will get messy - the game 1 where pyromaster can just win on its own (Ux Devotion, Control, Small Aggro, Bx Devotion and Burn) is enough for me.

- - - - - - - - - - - - -

I'm sure some of you know, I also post on Sally and since I'm not backed by any large sites I tend to get lots
of "WTF" PMs (do you get these as well Z?) - the main issue is I find is that people are all trapped into a concept that burn MUST be Fast, it MUST be doing something. if burn doesn't win in X turns its DEAD. So when they see Young Pyromancer, Blind Obedience, Chandra, Pyromaster and Assemble the Legion they question your sanity since it goes against the notion of burn which they're fixated on.

I think Z mention this before but standard burn might as well be a tempo or control deck rather then aggro - how many times have you guys won by swinging in with Chandra's Phoenix 7-10 times, while clearing the board? that not really that fast now is it? Young Pyromancer, Blind Obedience, Chandra, Pyromaster and Assemble the Legion doesn't have the same impact as PE, Ash or VFB but they'll get the job done eventually and they'll do even more work if the game goes on.

This is Esp. true on G2-3 when your enter control mode....

I have a sick pleasure of playing the control role against aggro.

Good morning thread!

1) SFD vs MM:
Lets think about this: vs Monsters, Esper Midrange, Aggro and Ux Devotion what are you cutting? How would Golgari Charm or Pain // Loss make you feel if you had SFD and YP$ in play? Use that conclusion too make your choice.

I think Mortars has the edge currently but it's close - I've not seen Profit//Loss since BNG and I've not seen Golgari Charm outside of Jund Monsters, which is sadly still a thing. If the removal light decks - MonoU, WW and GW - see more play then I think Dancer becomes better. Due to my od the Dancer I'm
always hoping that they do

Thoughts on a 2 MM 1 Spark split? I'm running this and like it a lot - no comments regarding playing singletons please MDU - varied lines of attack, Spark blow outs are always fun, good in the same match ups ...

2) Manabase: Should we run 2x Mountains over 2x Gates? 2x Mountain means we're more open too PE however it will give us more untapped land which is important for T3 and 4 (with our current 10 we only have 81% chance of hitting one on T3 and 86% on T4 - they're decent odds esp. if you factor in "scry"). The reason why I run gates is because I've been **** over by colors during deciding matches much too often which is why I'm running my current base, that said in the grand scales of things I've only died 3-4 four times - compare that with the number of games won you'll
notice that I'm clearly overreacting thus I won't fault anyone in cutting the gates.

I can get behind this. With Mountains over Gates we'd still have 10 sources of W which I'd be happy with as the list has 8 scry lands The PE thing is worth considering (I like to consider everything, I'm a bit obsessive like that) but I don't think it happens often enough to be a deciding factor here.

3) 3rd Assemble the Legion vs 2nd Chandra, Pyromaster SB: Assemble is a very expensive card so you don't want to see it in your opening hand or early draws - HOWEVER you do want to see it on the curve (I hate seeing 2 in my hand if my opp. doesn't discard it, I hate not seeing 1 on my 5th land drop) what would you guys pick and why? I'm leaning more on 2 Assemble because we're running so much "scry" and I want room for more cards to hate on Rx, UWx, Ux and Bx.

I'm
running the extra Chandra - with sooo much scry I've not had a problem with 2 Assemble and she adds another line of attack in the match ups you've listed. She's incredibly strong and somewhat under the radar at the moment too which is pleasing.

4) BO vs PE: I won't say BO is better then PE or vice visa since PE is MANY times better against Hexproof, Burn and arguably Gr Monster (I prefer BO vs Junk and Jund) - but BO helps you win games you CAN'T win like for example Whip into Ghost-dad, or Whip into dredge, whilst still being decent against Burn and Monsters (with 14 sources to activate it in our version its even better).

I'm running BO for the flexibility and the 'win games you can't win' effect but I'm not 100% on needing 3 as you don't need it early for those games. In the Monsters and Burn match ups it's def something you want to see early or pretty much not at all though.

5) 1x Chandra, Pyromaster MD or toss it into the SB: "[i:
1qld3uqr]if people see a card in G1 - they are prepped for it G2 whereas if you bring the card in it can wrongfoot them - B may have taken out all the HDF for example[/i]" - quoted from someone awesome. I'm personally in favor of running Pyromaster MD because I like having the option to go on the "defend the queen plan", if for example the Bx deck keeps HDF as a result - then my creatures will have a better time attacking him or his SB will get messy - the game 1 where pyromaster can just win on its own (Ux Devotion, Control, Small Aggro, Bx Devotion and Burn) is enough for me.

I can see validity in both points here I'm running 1 Chandra MD for the exact same reasons as you are. As with the amount of Mountains blunting the effects of PE the G2 surprise factor is a worthy of consideration but in this case I think the benefits of a MD Chandra out weight the lack of potential G2
surprise. There are a few options if you want her in the SB though - switch her for the Vault and run 24 land, switch her for the 3rd BO and run 4 Shock MD or the 3/3/3 CttR/Shock/Searing split.

I'm sure some of you know, I also post on Sally

Don't! Just don't

1) SFD vs MM:

Lets think about this: vs Monsters, Esper Midrange, Aggro and Ux Devotion what are you cutting? How would Golgari Charm or Pain // Loss make you feel if you had SFD and YP$ in play? Use that conclusion too make your choice.

They're close against Monsters; Esper Midrange is mostly a bye either way and while Mortars is VERY good against Mono U Devotion, Firedancer is the actual nuts. I like Firedancer in the version with only 4 Phoenix since your spell density is still very high post board which works well with him; in the versions with YP$ main I like Mortars because of that synergy.

2) Manabase: Should we run 2x Mountains over 2x Gates? 2x Mountain means we're more open too PE however it will give us
more untapped land which is important for T3 and 4 (with our current 10 we only have 81% chance of hitting one on T3 and 86% on T4 - they're decent odds esp. if you factor in "scry"). The reason why I run gates is because I've been **** over by colors during deciding matches much too often which is why I'm running my current base, that said in the grand scales of things I've only died 3-4 four times - compare that with the number of games won you'll notice that I'm clearly overreacting thus I won't fault anyone in cutting the gates.

As long as you have at least 19 red and 11 white I don't think it matters; it comes down to how far personally you want to push the mana base for value. I am only running 5 Mountains (+4 Blood Crypt and +4 Sacred Foundry) this week and its been fine.

3) 3rd Assemble the Legion vs 2nd Chandra, Pyromaster SB: Assemble is a very expensive card so you don't want to see it in your opening hand or early draws - HOWEVER you do
want to see it on the curve (I hate seeing 2 in my hand if my opp. doesn't discard it, I hate not seeing 1 on my 5th land drop) what would you guys pick and why? I'm leaning more on 2 Assemble because we're running so much "scry" and I want room for more cards to hate on Rx, UWx, Ux and Bx.

Second Chandra and it isn't even close; comes in for more matchups, cheaper, would rather draw 1 of each etc.

4) BO vs PE: I won't say BO is better then PE or vice visa since PE is MANY times better against Hexproof, Burn and arguably Gr Monster (I prefer BO vs Junk and Jund) - but BO helps you win games you CAN'T win like for example Whip into Ghost-dad, or Whip into dredge, whilst still being decent against Burn and Monsters (with 14 sources to activate it in our version its even better).

The meta has reached a point online where Burn is the second most played deck. Peak Eruption is easily the most powerful specific hate card in the mirror, so
that's what you want to be running. We're at the point where beating GR or something else is an afterthought, you NEED to beat Burn.

5) 1x Chandra, Pyromaster MD or toss it into the SB: "if people see a card in G1 - they are prepped for it G2 whereas if you bring the card in it can wrongfoot them - B may have taken out all the HDF for example" - quoted from someone awesome. I'm personally in favor of running Pyromaster MD because I like having the option to go on the "defend the queen plan", if for example the Bx deck keeps HDF as a result - then my creatures will have a better time attacking him or his SB will get messy - the game 1 where pyromaster can just win on its own (Ux Devotion, Control, Small Aggro, Bx Devotion and Burn) is enough for me.

Discussed this after the weekend with my team and we still felt that sideboard Chandra is just better right now. She's mostly absurd out of the board because they're not ready
for her; to the extent that many decks actually take out potential answers to her while sideboarding.

- - - - - - - - - - - - -

I'm sure some of you know, I also post on Sally and since I'm not backed by any large sites I tend to get lots of "WTF" PMs (do you get these as well Z?) - the main issue is I find is that people are all trapped into a concept that burn MUST be Fast, it MUST be doing something. if burn doesn't win in X turns its DEAD. So when they see Young Pyromancer, Blind Obedience, Chandra, Pyromaster and Assemble the Legion they question your sanity since it goes against the notion of burn which they're fixated on.

I get so much retarded shit here, there and everywhere you wouldn't believe it.

I agree 100% that PE being the best hate card vs Burn, which is one of the reasons why I like my 10 Mountain plan (6 Mountains + 4 Sacred Foundry, the rest are non-mountains) - I'm very close in running PE myself now, the main factor holding me back is the lack of competent pilots running Burn.

I still don't think Chandra should only stay in the SB since the only deck which you gain that advantage of people not being ready for her is Bx Devotion (cutting HDF, which I'll admit is a huge advantage), the other list will still pack the same answers they'll always pack.

Comes with the territory.

You only have 10 Mountains for Chained? That can't be correct.

The naya hexproof deck only runs 8.... 0.o

Staff of the Death Magus is unbeatable! / MTGS

You only have 10 Mountains for Chained? That can't be correct.

Yep, J_S has it spot on

I ran Hexproof with 8 Mountain with 4x Chain without any issues - with burn you have (in my version 12 scry sources with the ability to dig 14 cards deep) also yes **** sally and that staff (somehow that staff get toss into every argument I've had as of late).

Oh how that last pic pleases me

I have fused MANY Toil // Trouble this week. My favourite is the "vaule" fuse where you deal them like 1-2 damage only, but you draw 2 cards and get back a Phoenix.

I have fused MANY Toil // Trouble this week. My favourite is the "value" fuse where you deal them like 1-2 damage only, but you draw 2 cards and get back a Phoenix.

That's basically Cruel Ultimatum.

Hahaha, yeah pretty much >:)

So after a brief hiatus with the deck apparently my teammates are demanding I play burn again for the GPT coming up so here I am lol.

How has the Pyromancer-less/all burn plan been going Zem?

You only have 10 Mountains for Chained? That can't be correct.

Yep, J_S has it spot on

I ran Hexproof with 8 Mountain with 4x Chain without any issues - with burn you have (in my version 12 scry sources with the ability to dig 14 cards deep) also yes **** sally and that staff (somehow that staff get toss into every argument I've had as of late).

I wasn't endorsing it lol.

When I tested the Naya Hexproof deck (part of my play group's gauntlet) I was constantly
infuriated that it ran so much scry and so few targets for chained.

So after a brief hiatus with the deck apparently my teammates are demanding I play burn again for the GPT coming up so here I am lol.

How has the Pyromancer-less/all burn plan been going Zem?

The refined version of the list has been doing well. It crushes Esper and MBC which is really all that matters I suppose; the YP version has a much more even matchup spread accross the meta - so make a choice I suppose.

People also seem to not undestand how to play against the Toil // Trouble version at all.

I think for paper, you probably want the YP$ version. Just my $0.02.

With all the lists running so many scrylands these days Toil / Trouble just does so much work. It's also pretty attractive to have Phoenix as your only guy and make everyone's removal look stupid, and your goldfish is a bit faster too. You just give up a bit of game in the mirror.

I see a lot of creature decks at the store I think will be my new LGS.

Having a faster goldfish might mean you actually don't give up much in the mirror, and MBC matchup is much better. I think especially for paper, I'll stick with the Toil version (not the Trouble version because that would involve not maxing out Blood Crypt) for another week or two and see how I do.

My friend took down the SCG Open with MBD and played Burn once, racing him with DD. Not sure what list the guy was on.

I see a lot of creature decks at the store I think will be my new LGS.

Punish them for their lack of vision.



Oh, I'm afraid the Deflector Shield will be quite operational when their friends arrive....

I did kill an MBC player with only four spells last night. Trouble for 7; Trouble for 6; Boros Charm and Skullcrack. I wonder if he thought it was funny.

3-1 at DE today with new list. Lost a very annoying G3 vs. Reanimator due to him being able to Whip a Deathrite Shaman and ping me for the win

Anyway, here's where I am at the moment (pretty similar to MDU's list)

[deck]Dauntless 24 land Burn[/deck]

Card choices:

24 land[/b:
1habkp8n]: Haven't regretted the extra Mutavault MD

No Searing Blood: Good in mirror G1, but risk of being a dead card if opp. sides out all creatures

2/2 Split BO / Peak Eruption: Want the extra cards in the Mirror, not sure if CTTR is a good card to keep in a full playset in times of PE (I side out 1 copy)

2 Mortars, 1 Glare: Going back and forth on this one. In the end, I like the "insurance policy" against whatever Esper may bring in (BO, Paladin, Archangel, Sphere), over the 3rd Mortars, which would obviously improve Ux and Gx

If, for whatever reason, say a cat ate your 4th Young Pyromancer... would you run instead:

(currently running 3/3/3 shock/searing blood/chained)

a) 24th non-mutavault land - already playing all mutavaults I have.
b) chandra
c) toil // trouble
d) 4th shock
e) 4th searing blood
f) 1 ash zealot
g) none of the above.

This is paper magic btw.

H) Run a cat token as YP proxy...

I am not as expertly as some of these guys, but I have been testing one Chandra main the last few days and I have been liking it quite a bit. So, that is what I would run in the 4th YP spot if I were in your situation.

I am not as expertly as some of these guys, but I have been testing one Chandra main the last few days and I have been liking it quite a bit. So, that is what I would run in the 4th YP spot if I were in your situation.

That was my first thought too... also need to get better at Chandra so having even 1x main helps.

I did kill an MBC player with only four spells last night. Trouble for 7; Trouble for 6; Boros Charm and Skullcrack. I wonder if he thought it was funny.

We do even if he failed to see the humor.

She does require decisions. The ult is great, but so is drawing a lot of cards.