[Fedoras of Salvation] - White Knights ITT

[Alex]

JK, it should be fixed. I changed some of the permissions.

I wasn't having any trouble posting to the thread to begin with, but who knows?

[zemanjaski]

Sorted now, thanks. Like the restructure.

[Alex]

Sorted now, thanks. Like the restructure.

Figured it would be easier than screwing around with making completely new subforums every couple of months.

[zemanjaski]

Word.

[Link]

glad you like it LP. You still trying the madcap skills? Its serious legit. Its how the deck runs over people. You make them scared as shit during SB and you bring in your grind package and go to town (Xathrid necromancer is legit btw. If MOgis Maruader wasn't also so good G1 I'd main deck him).

In a meta where people are tapping out to play divination, playing guildgates on T2, or playing an 0/3 plant down, T2 madcap is legit and puts them on the backfoot immediately.

I'd run more if magma jet/lightning strike wasn't so core, but 2 has been "just right"

[Link]

Also Z, I'm trying Gyre sage out over Sylvan Caryatid and its been legit so far.

1. It makes it so that "all your setting up just to die to doom blade" doesnt work, because gyre becomes a legit threat itself as you play out more fatties

2. Gyre sage can also tap for mana to fill all the sinks the deck has available to it.

3. You agreed Ruric Thar is worth ramping into, and the 5-drop I've been testing (4 5-drops, 2 6-drops) is definitely worth ramping into as well which is Boon Satyr. Its a 2 for 1 5-drop which R/G didnt have access to with thragtusk gone. Flashing him in on T3, taking a guy out, then untapping to play a 4/4 scavenging ooze is also very solid.

I think G/R just needs to be tweaked more, but you're definitely right that the 8-dorks->non-value 5-drops (hydra and stormbreath at times) route is not good. I had considered running 6 Kibler style, but then I remember Gyre Sage and how she
was a bit too slow fo rlast format (compared to strangleroot geist, flinthoof boar) but now in this early meta its time to frickin shine

[F.I.A]

I really like how they give us that many instant removals in a standard where enchantments were supposed to be the in-thing. Madcap Skills could have been better if slapping down a turn or two later wouldn't get the target burnt.

Of course, there is still those hexproof nuisances going on.

[Haiiro Sedai]

I think we nailed the final form of Kuroda Boros. It should have much stronger control matchup now.

[deck]Creatures:
4 Ember Swallower
4 Stormbreath Dragon

Planeswalkers:
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Other Spells:
4 Chained to the Rocks
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Boros Charm
4 Warleader's Helix
2 Mizzium Mortars

Lands:
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Boros Guildgate
14 Mountain

Sideboard:
4 Anger of the Gods
4 Assemble the Legion
2 Burning Earth
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Renounce the Guilds
1 Wear // Tear[/deck]

Consider testing and tuning it when creating your States gauntlet. Not as your potential enemy, more as the kind of deck to run against the meta.
You're oppresive in Aggro matchup, especially
post board.
You're burning out most of control decks actually.
Midrange... well, hope midrange dies to Mortars mostly.

I take full credit for the Elspeth in this list.


As for the board I would -1 assemble +1 Chandra. Getting one to stick is hard but insane against Ub and even I don't play 4 assemble any more. With all your removal and Ember getting to six shouldn't be too hard and you are fairly weak to dega as is. Yes they often die to their own mana but you shouldnt bet on it. Another wear / tear would help as well. Whip and UWC are difficult for you atm.

You may be safe going -1 anger +1 mortars in the board as well.

[zemanjaski]

Gyre Sage is a huge improvement. Good thinking.

The 0/3 plant is terrible in my testing. The thing with a ramp deck is that you have low threat density, so you new a way to convert non-threats into real ones, for example KWR + Solemn beatdown in wolf run ramp. That the plant cannot be converted into a threat, ever, is a huge problem in any non-aggro matchup.

Gyre Sage fixes both issues (ramp and threat).

[Alex]

If anyone wants to test on Cockatrice, I'm online.

[Alex]

1/0 against Nuwen's Rakdos playing my Izzet list.

[Helios]

I take full credit for the Elspeth in this list.

Then you better go read the thread, because you were absolutely not the first.

Is there a high-horse smilie?

EDIT: Well, you may not have access to it, didn't realize it was still in our brewery. But we've been on Elspeth for a while, so hush.

[zemanjaski]

Brad Nelson invented PyroRed.

Travis Woo invented Mono Red Sledgehammer.

Cedric Phillips is not to black people what hitler is to white people.

[Alex]

I take full credit for the Elspeth in this list.

Then you better go read the thread, because you were absolutely not the first.

Is there a high-horse smilie?

EDIT: Well, you may not have access to it, didn't realize it was still in our brewery. But we've been on Elspeth for a while, so hush.

[Lightning_Dolt]

Thoughts on Reid Duke's Mono Red Aggro article?

[zemanjaski]

Stopped buying premium. His take on 2011 mono red was sketchy, but he's world class now. I'm sure it's worth a read.

[Alex]

2/0'd Nuwen's Rakdos, 2/1'd Maze's End.

[photodyer]

Sorted now, thanks. Like the restructure.

Figured it would be easier than screwing around with making completely new subforums every couple of months.

Perhaps I'm overthinking it, but does the Competitive section need a "midrange variants" sub to cover the gamut? I know that aggro and control are standing at the peak slugging it out for king of the hill, but I would imagine that someone's going to figure out how to capitalize on BBoV and GhostDad with Tusk/Resto out of the format. If W/B/R can strike the right balance they may get there as well.

[zemanjaski]

Can't hurt.

[photodyer]

1/0 against Nuwen's Rakdos playing my Izzet list.

Which Izzet is it?

[Alex]

Sorted now, thanks. Like the restructure.

Figured it would be easier than screwing around with making completely new subforums every couple of months.

Perhaps I'm overthinking it, but does the Competitive section need a "midrange variants" sub to cover the gamut? I know that aggro and control are standing at the peak slugging it out for king of the hill, but I would imagine that someone's going to figure
out how to capitalize on BBoV and GhostDad with Tusk/Resto out of the format. If W/B/R can strike the right balance they may get there as well.

I'll make one when one of those decks posts relevant results. As of now they haven't.

[zemanjaski]

PurgetheProfane.dec is tier 1

[photodyer]

Sorted now, thanks. Like the restructure.

Figured it would be easier than screwing around with making completely new subforums every couple of months.

Perhaps I'm overthinking it, but does the Competitive section need a "midrange variants" sub to cover
the gamut? I know that aggro and control are standing at the peak slugging it out for king of the hill, but I would imagine that someone's going to figure out how to capitalize on BBoV and GhostDad with Tusk/Resto out of the format. If W/B/R can strike the right balance they may get there as well.

I'll make one when one of those decks posts relevant results. As of now they haven't.

Just to be dickish, who and what determine "relevant" results? One could argue that one SCG Open is not a statistically significant sample size for defining anything as relevant or otherwise.

Just sayin'...

[Alex]

I agree, but as of right now that's what we've got.

[photodyer]

Granted, but you still didn't answer my question...

[DerWille]

I took Zman's list to Wednesday night Magic at one of the more competitive game stores in my area. I went 4-0 for the night.

Round 1 vs Esper Control

2-1 this one. He beats me game one. Double Azorius Charm really screws up aggro decks and buys him enough time to set up. I grind it out as best as I can. Next game I run over him before he can do anything. Third game is much the same.

Round 2 vs Esper Control

2-0 this one. I run under him before he can do much of anything. It seems like turn 2 guildgate/scry land is almost suicide against this deck, especially if I'm on the play. If I curve out that's 10 points of damage before they've done anything.

Round 3 vs BUG Control

Game 1, I run over him. Game 2, I resolveBurning Earth and he took out his Golgari Charms. It was funny watching him play spells with his 1
basic island.

Round 4 vs Junk Midrange w/ Pack Rats

Game 1 is close. I kept a stupid hand of Young Pyromancer, 1 Mountain, 2 Mutavault, and the rest burn. I just barely close the game out at 6 life when he has demon on the field. I burn the last 4 withFlames of the Firebrand and Chandra, Pyromaster. Game 2 I keep a sensible hand and run him down to 6 life. He plays a Blood Baron, but I steal it with Act of Treason for game.

[zemanjaski]

High five redbro.

[zemanjaski]

That sweet Act of Treason tech.

[F.I.A]

So with prerelease coming to modo by this Saturday, I'd be glad if fellow pyromages who played paper would give out some advices. Any cards to watch out for? Or should I build my deck around scry cards?

[photodyer]

Dammit.

Adrian Sullivan just smacked James upside the head yet again. In his latest article (ironically enough an analysis of the plight of midrange strategies in the crush between red aggro and U-based control), Sullivan points to "Brad Nelson's" red list as definitive of the issues facing midrange.

Here's my comment in response:

"I very much appreciate this treatise on the tenuous position of midrange strategies in the developing meta--well done. I enjoyed playing B/W and B/G Midrange through the end of last season, and your breakdown of the meta shift offers food for thought.

However, I have one issue with your sourcing. That red list run by "SCG's very own Brad Nelson" was net-decked off of diestoremoval.com and was the creation of zemanjaski. It's truly a shame that people who are content creators and players alike fail to see the need to properly credit people for
their work. I guess Pirate Bay defines the new social order..."

[Link]

1/0 against Nuwen's Rakdos playing my Izzet list.

pyromancer+Ash zealot kinda wrecks her. Good thing no one knows bout dat sweet izzet brew but us

Also states is in Durham.... tcg player states right?

[Link]

Gyre Sage is a huge improvement. Good thinking.

The 0/3 plant is terrible in my testing. The thing with a ramp deck is that you have low threat density, so you new a way to convert non-threats into real ones, for example KWR + Solemn beatdown in wolf run ramp. That the plant cannot be converted into a threat, ever, is a huge problem in any non-aggro matchup.

Gyre Sage fixes both issues (ramp and threat).

Some pro was really impressed with him and nicknamed him "Gyre 'Goyf" I think it was Willy Edel.

It takes some work getting online, but you can get young pyromancer levels of value off it, and it definitely takes heat off your 4-drops whereas Sylvan caryatid COULDNT eat a doom blade or warrant a board wipe. its a meh topdeck but
if you have the ideal "hammer" late game you can haste her out and sac a land to evolve for some decent beats.

[Alex]

Granted, but you still didn't answer my question...

I don't know how else to answer it? Until the Pro Tour there really isn't anything concrete, but if a midrange deck wasn't even good enough to make a showing at the open, (which you just dismissed as not being worthy of real praise) shouldn't that say something on its own?

As for the "who and what," that would be me, and an event large enough to draw professional players. The SCG open did. Many of the best players on the East Coast were there.

[Platypus]

1/0 against Nuwen's Rakdos playing my Izzet list.

pyromancer+Ash zealot kinda wrecks her. Good thing no one knows bout dat sweet izzet brew but us

Izzetn't up in the open area? So, it will probably be stolen soon...

[photodyer]

Granted, but you still didn't answer my question...

I don't know how else to answer it? Until the Pro Tour there really isn't anything concrete, but if a midrange deck wasn't even good enough to make a showing at the open, (which you just dismissed as not being worthy of real praise) shouldn't that say something on its own?

As for the "who and what," that would be me, and an event large enough to draw professional players. The SCG open did. Many of the best players on the East Coast were there.

G/R Monsters in 3rd, Naya in 7th. Or are you looping "
sledgehammer" creature decks under aggro? I'm good with that, but again I'm just trying to clarify the bounds of what's what.

As to "you", my point is made...beware that you don't drift into a Koopa mentality, Alex.

[Alex]

Granted, but you still didn't answer my question...

I don't know how else to answer it? Until the Pro Tour there really isn't anything concrete, but if a midrange deck wasn't even good enough to make a showing at the open, (which you just dismissed as not being worthy of real praise) shouldn't that say something on its own?

As for the "who and what," that would be me, and an event large enough to draw professional players.
The SCG open did. Many of the best players on the East Coast were there.

G/R Monsters in 3rd, Naya in 7th. Or are you looping "sledgehammer" creature decks under aggro? I'm good with that, but again I'm just trying to clarify the bounds of what's what.

As to "you", my point is made...beware that you don't drift into a Koopa mentality, Alex.

Those were ramp decks more than anything. Sledgehammer is piled in with aggro for now.

It isn't perfect, I didn't put a lot of effort into it yet because there is no solid information to go off of. Right now it is more or less a skeleton.

[Alex]

And of course I was the one who made the decision, James and I are the only two active Standard mods, and of the two of us I'm the only one who has ACP access.

[zemanjaski]

Also I'm techno-illiterate.

[LP, of the Fires]

Alright Fate.

I'll play madcap.

And while I won't blame you if it fails, feel free to bask in my tears after I inevitably whine like a baby.

But if it works, you get all the praise so I guess it's even and I suppose it says something that I'm just gonna play the card on your good word.

[LP, of the Fires]

I was surprised you even had a facebook.