Dies to Removal

^Blood Barons are in more or less all BWx 75s locally, so I wouldn't leave house without a few Mortars. Don't know about the online meta, but the local players sure like them.

As we saw in recent gp it is still possible to play 2 colors with onlyn4 dual lands.

Question: is walter white better than br version? Only as a small splash for removal etc.

Shouild we discuss Br versions tha took recent gp here?

As we saw in recent gp it is still possible to play 2 colors with onlyn4 dual lands.

Question: is walter white better than br version? Only as a small splash for removal etc.

Shouild we discuss Br versions tha took recent gp here?

I don't really want to repeat myself so here:

I watched it go 4-0 piloted by sadman, its solid meta game deck which is great vs G/x/x (ramp), MonoB, MonoU and Control.

Not sure its the correct deck to take to a R/x/x meta though, can't see it beating BG/x either.

Its a well positioned deck to prey on the upper tier, if you
meta doesn't reflect the upper tier then you shouldn't run it.

@Pedros: If you mean the Br deck that won GP Santiago, then there a suitable thread in the developing section: viewtopic.php?f=38&t=1560

I could probably be moved to the Competitive section.

I just created an account to thank you all for this thread and advice given. I recently attended a national competition (South Africa - Premier event) and while my drafting hurt my chances - I finished 5-1 in standard in no small part due to your guys help.

The decklist was the MonoR Pyro one, but because I could find a playset of Emissaries, I ended up running 1 BTE, 2 Ash Zealot and 1 Goblin Shortcutter.

Luckily YP$ is the boss, and really pushed through for me, helped a lot to overcome the shortcomings of the other 2-drops I was forced to run.

With Pyrewild Shaman costing three to recur, the deck becomes just a bit more mana hungry. I really want 23 lands in Walter White, but there's nothing I can see to cut.

@IIamaza — Congratulations! And welcome aboard.

Ran PyroBoros in IQ to a 4-2 record. Pretty much stock mainboard (4 BTE-3 FFS- 3YP$) and here was my SB:

[deck]4 Reckoner
2 Boros Charm
2 Mizzium Mortar
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Fanatic
1 Act of Treason
2 Skullcrack[/deck]

Deck ran great, there was a game or two where I had to lay down scryland on turn 2 which hurt some explosiveness but that is to be expected.

Wins:
Naya Control: 2-0
Naya Hexproof: 2-1
Mono-Black:2-1
Mono Red: 2-0

Losses:
G/W (in the swiss): 2-1 I had to put him on rootborn defenses in order for him to win the game, turns out he had it in hand.
Mono Black splash green for Abrupt Decay and Reaper of the Wilds: 2-1. He saw 3 grey merchants in game 3, nothing I can do. Never saw a skullcrack. Reaper also caused some issues.


Post Tourney thoughts: I want 4 skullcrack.

Funny thing that in testing weeks ago the first deck we brought up was a Rakdos aggro deck - very similar to the one posted. The Xathrid's were in the board though. The problem we found was that it lost to RDW/AIR every time, but this version may have a better game

Anyone have any insights as to the GW matchup for the BR deck? Is it as bad as Pyro's?

Also trying to imagine the sideboard plan, especially against MonoU (for interest, not sure I'll see it again) and GR Ramp as that will be at my FNM every week along with GW (which I'm scared of)

PyRos has a good GW matchup, just remember that you're the control, not the beatdown.

Added vundo's TOP 32 finish to the primer (thanks mdu!), as well as a few other little updates. Deck tags are still broken in the reports post. Ugh Only 5 weeks left til thesis is over, so expect much more content after that!

With Pyrewild Shaman costing three to recur, the deck becomes just a bit more mana hungry. I really want 23 lands in Walter White, but there's nothing I can see to cut.

@IIamaza — Congratulations! And welcome aboard.

Cut the 2nd Shaman. He's gravy anyway.

depends on the version of GW. That list folds to soldier of the pantheon with pretty much of all its draws (only 4 lightning strikes to kill it), and having exava stuck behind a pantheon is pretty bad feelings.

Against other versions without pantheon, it crushes pretty easily. ADvent of the wurm? Get mogis maurader. Want to suit some shit up with unflinching cuorage? lolu doomblade/dreadbore.

Thats the main reason we switched to pyro rakis, though, for shocks magma jet and chandra and not folding to a 1-drop. I'd stick to pyro especially if people start playing the rakdos deck. Just envision flames of the firebranding that shit and remember that they can't play defense for shit (although necromancer is definitely a pain, phoenix is op.)

Doomblade also kills Pantheon...

Post board you add 2 Mizzium Mortars to give you 8 options that hit Pantheon.

Anyone have any updates with testing of Pyrewild shaman? When I get home tonight I might throw him in for some 2 mans

Planning on this for tonight's daily:

[deck]Lands 22
12 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Mutavault

Creatures 22
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
2 Firefist Striker
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Planeswalkers 02
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Enchantments 02
2 Chained to the Rocks

Pew Pew 12
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
3 Shock
1 Flames of the Firebrand

Sideboard 15
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Skullcrack
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Fanatic of Mogis
1 Flames of the Firebrand[/deck]

Just went 3-1 in a DE using Zem's Pyro deck from a couple of days ago (love it by the way!).

R/W Boros Devotion (0-2) Game 1 was pretty close but ultimately I couldn't find the last point of damage to finish it. Game 2, missed the 3rd land drop and was stomped by a couple of Reckoners and a Fanatic. Can't think of much to help here beyond cutting a couple of Mutavaults and sticking Reckoners into the SB (at the cost of other matchups).

B/R Aggro (2-0) Copy of the deck that just won the Santiago GP. Chandra makes this match up very easy indeed.

Esper (2-0) Not much to say here, game 1 solid start which he never recovered from. Game 2 didn't draw a Verdict.

MBC (2-0) I managed to mis-click through the attack phase costing me 10 damage in one game and still managed to win easily, which I guess is testament to how good this match up is.

Regarding Pyrewild Shaman - I saw that
Patrick Sullivan was championing Rubblebelt Maaka in the SCG:Open at the weekend. Considering that is a cheaper non-reusable version of the Shaman (admittedly with more toughness) it sounds like a good plan. I don't think people will be prepared for it so definitely going to give it a run out. Just a shame that the red Bestow creatures are prohibitively expensive...

A

Yeah the Boros matchup is very bad; basically they're just a pike of cards that are well positioned against us. If it becomes more popular you can sideboard serious hate for them though; until then they're built to best is and we're really not built to beat them.

Move is finished, just waiting on Internet now and ill be streaming again >:)

Check out CFB later this week...for no reason at all.

Yeah the Boros matchup is very bad; basically they're just a pike of cards that are well positioned against us. If it becomes more popular you can sideboard serious hate for them though; until then they're built to best is and we're really not built to beat them.

Move is finished, just waiting on Internet now and ill be streaming again >:)

Check out CFB later this week...for no reason at all.

Damn now I have to Bookmark CFB again, also once you get back onto DE during Aussie primetime I think your going to be shock with the amount of G/x/x and R/x/x list popping around - luckily we're moving in the right direction to combat it since the BtE version just dies too Boros Reckoner block into AoG.deck but with the Ash into Shaman route you
have a fighting chance.

Yeah the Boros matchup is very bad; basically they're just a pike of cards that are well positioned against us. If it becomes more popular you can sideboard serious hate for them though; until then they're built to best is and we're really not built to beat them.

Move is finished, just waiting on Internet now and ill be streaming again >:)
Check out CFB later this week...for no reason at all.

Damn now I have to Bookmark CFB again,

Same here, bro.

Anyone else been playing with Pyrewild Shaman? I'm curious about others thoughts, if any.

Yeah, I tried him out tonight to hate on the new R/x/x DE's meta. I was pleased... very pleased.... went 4-0 stomping MonoU 2-0, R FoM 2-1 and Naya 2-0 (round four I split for the win)

I won't post the replays yet, since I since have 3 other DE finishes to post on my other list - but here was my take on Pyrewild Shaman version:

[deck=MDU's PyroWhite]Lands 22
12x Mountain
04x Sacred Foundry
04x Temple of Triumph
02x Mutavault

Creatures 21
04x Ash
Zealot
04x Chandra's Phoenix
04x Firedrinker Satyr
04x Rakdos Cackler
03x Young Pyromancer
02x Pyrewild Shaman

Planeswalkers 02
02x Chandra, Pyromaster

Enchantments 02
02x Chained to the Rocks

Instants 12
04x Lightning Strike
04x Magma Jet
04x Shock

Sorceries 01
01x Flame of the Firebrand

Sideboard 15
04x Boros Reckoner
02x Skullcrack
02x Chained to the Rocks
02x Mizzium Mortars
02x Fanatic of Mogis
01x Flame of the Firebrand
01x Mutavault
01x Assemble the Legion[/deck]

I look at Pyrewild Shaman like [card]Chandra's Phoenix[/card] v0.2 except he can be relevant without over-committing the board (which is huge in a AoG meta).

The extra burn MD over Young Pyromancer is my nod to MonoU and the lack of B/x/x as of late, the SB are meta tuned so it may or may not make sense.

Quick report~

As some of you may know I've been heavily testing the Pyrewild Shaman variant (
5 DE's four finishes and one 1-2 drop), I found that the list gives you the right tools to take down G/x/x variants (hexproof or */5 be damned) and allow you to dish out damage against the AoG.decks without too much concern.

I did loses a few games here or there but I put that down to variance of not drawing any threats, only problem (it took me awhile to notice) it wasn't the variance that was the issue.. it was due how Pyrewild Shaman effected the deck post SB - sure Pyrewild Shaman is still a 3/1 3cc creature but its usually much too slow, esp. if your boarding out your 1 drops, since it turns out it was not a good plan on bank on drawing [card]Chandra's Phoenix[/card] every game (even if it goes for 6+ turns) it just won't happen.

So I still have a few days till MOSC11 finals so I'll try and get that set-up I'm really after, I'm leading towards the edit version of the Rw Test deck which vundo used but with
some new tech to get around G/x/x and MoW.decks.

Anyone else been playing with Pyrewild Shaman? I'm curious about others thoughts, if any.

Yeah, I tried him out tonight to hate on the new R/x/x DE's meta. I was pleased... very pleased.... went 4-0 stomping MonoU 2-0, R FoM 2-1 and Naya 2-0 (round four I split for the win)

I won't post the replays yet, since I since have 3 other DE finishes to post on my other list - but here was my take on [card:
244oafac]Pyrewild Shaman[/card] version:

[deck=MDU's PyroWhite]Lands 22
12x Mountain
04x Sacred Foundry
04x Temple of Triumph
02x Mutavault

Creatures 21
04x Ash Zealot
04x Chandra's Phoenix
04x Firedrinker Satyr
04x Rakdos Cackler
03x Young Pyromancer
02x Pyrewild Shaman

Planeswalkers 02
02x Chandra, Pyromaster

Enchantments 02
02x Chained to the Rocks

Instants 12
04x Lightning Strike
04x Magma Jet
04x Shock

Sorceries 01
01x Flame of the Firebrand

Sideboard 15
04x Boros Reckoner
02x Skullcrack
02x Chained to the Rocks
02x Mizzium Mortars
02x Fanatic of Mogis
01x Flame of the Firebrand
01x Mutavault
01x Assemble the Legion[/deck]

I look at Pyrewild Shaman like [card]Chandra's Phoenix[/card] v0.2 except he can be relevant without over-committing the board (which is huge in a AoG meta).

The extra burn MD over Young Pyromancer is my nod to MonoU and the lack of B/x/x as of late, the SB are meta tuned
so it may or may not make sense.

Quick report~

As some of you may know I've been heavily testing the Pyrewild Shaman variant (5 DE's four finishes and one 1-2 drop), I found that the list gives you the right tools to take down G/x/x variants (hexproof or */5 be damned) and allow you to dish out damage against the AoG.decks without too much concern.

I did loses a few games here or there but I put that down to variance of not drawing any threats, only problem (it took me awhile to notice) it wasn't the variance that was the issue.. it was due how Pyrewild Shaman effected the deck post SB - sure Pyrewild Shaman is still a 3/1 3cc creature but its usually much too slow, esp. if your boarding out your 1 drops, since it turns out it was not a good plan on bank on drawing [card]Chandra's Phoenix[/card] every game (even if it goes for 6+ turns) it just won't happen.

So
I still have a few days till MOSC11 finals so I'll try and get that set-up I'm really after, I'm leading towards the edit version of the Rw Test deck which vundo used but with some new tech to get around G/x/x and MoW.decks.

Exactly!

I made a post a bit ago about how I was completely unsure how to SB now with Pyrewild Shaman in. It screwed everything up for me honestly...
I love the card, when it has those great interactions, but then this happens when I go to G2 and possibly G3 and I feel like I lose because I don't SB correctly with the Shaman in my plans..

People starting to play Pyrewild Shaman?
Better dig all of the posts saying "no yarpus, this card is unplayable shit" "uninstall, scrub".
Haheueh.

I'd actually say - playing him as 1-off is fine. He's not a kind of card that works well in multiples while he works amazingly when you actually draw onto singleton copy. He provides the hatefuel you just need to beat your opponent. He's good in two important matchups - Midranges and Controls. He allows you to trade your stuff with Midrange decks. Better have Selesnya Charm for 5/3 Ash Zealot trading with your big, bad boy. Against control, he brings inevitability. They can spend removal, sweepers and counterspells and he's still back for some more beating. And he screws Last Breath which is a nice mini-bonus.
Against Aggro he's just worse Chandra's Phoenix with possible maindeck Satyr punisher. They want to block Cackler with Satyr? Make it no trade
and 5 damage to the face. Funzies.
petable removal d) fuck your jace son.

As overall, list of junky cards I would consider in deckbuilding process:
1. Firemane Avenger
He blends well with the Walter White philosophy. You have strong token generator and Mutavaults to make sure you can rely on it's helix. Actually FA might be a solution for Mono Blue. He kills Nightveil Specter, they have no removal to contain your battalion, huge lifegain swings help at stabilizing and triggers say "fuck you jace". Oh, any it's trigger can kill nearly anything in their deck except of huge Cloudfin Raptor, Thassa and Master of Waves.

2. Ordeal of Purphoros/Heliod
Wouldn't that card be any good against non-removal decks? Mostly midranges and monoblue. Not sure if it fits PyroRed at all though.

3. Smite
Another cheap removal. I know it's really limited but it's better than most of stuff we already played with.

4. Shrivel
Kills lots of stuff in other Aggro decks while it only touches Firedrinker
Satyr in our deck.

5. Blood Scrivener
Burn deck with insane draw? Count me in.

Access to blue could be cute. Fate Foretold/Ordeal of Thassa, Gainsay (SB), Ral fucking Zarek, Counterflux, Turn // Burn are all sweet. Triton Tactics? Mean.

People starting to play Pyrewild Shaman?
Better dig all of the posts saying "no yarpus, this card is unplayable shit" "uninstall, scrub".
Haheueh.

I'd actually say - playing him as 1-off is fine. He's not a kind of card that works well in multiples while he works amazingly when you actually draw onto singleton copy. He provides the hatefuel you just need to beat your opponent. He's good in two important matchups - Midranges and Controls. He allows you to trade your stuff with Midrange decks. Better have Selesnya Charm for 5/3 Ash Zealot trading with your big, bad boy. Against control, he brings inevitability. They can spend removal, sweepers and counterspells and he's still back for some more beating. And he screws Last Breath which is a nice
mini-bonus.
Against Aggro he's just worse Chandra's Phoenix with possible maindeck Satyr punisher. They want to block Cackler with Satyr? Make it no trade and 5 damage to the face. Funzies.

I believe the future of PyroRed depends on finding a good way of dealing with the Mono Blue matchup. I tend to hear it's a bad matchup and I have to say it looks like one. There aren't many ways we can deal with resolved Master of Waves. They have Jace to contain us. What do we need Redbros?
What about MD/SB Firemane Avenger for Walter White? I know, it doesn't kill fucking Master of Fucking Waves. Still, lifegain/removal-burn and flier big enough to laugh on Nightveil Specter sounds like an option. Suddenly you a) have a way to stabilize b) you have a huge threat c) you have repetable removal d) fuck your jace son.

If Firemane Avenger was a 4/4 I would run her as 1x, but since she isn't - I find that she get screwed over by too many things to justify her cost.

Okay, I actually got excited because I have found Smite. Walter White guys, try it out as your 5-6th Chained to the Rocks.

And Firemane is mostly vulnerable in Red and control matchups. It wrecks our weak matchups on the other hand (midrange/mono blue).

Actually, I really want this as tech against MUD. Since pyrewild makes two more cards that we want to side out, this is actually very logical.

Firemane, that is.

Chained to the Rocks, 4 of them /shrug

Shocks are held for Weird/Cloudfin, Magma Jets are held for Weird/Cloudfin, Lightning Strikes are held for Spectre, Mortars are held for Spectre/Weird, Chained to the Rocks is held for MoW until their hand is low enough where you can spend the rest on other threats. It's not a perfect plan, but it works more often then just folding when they drop 7 tokens on turn4. I actually play control a lot more against MoW. I make sure they can't do shit, then I attack.

Okay, I actually got excited because I have found Smite. Walter White guys, try it out as your 5-6th Chained to the Rocks.

And Firemane is mostly vulnerable in Red and control matchups. It wrecks our weak matchups on the other hand (midrange/mono blue).

They won't block with MoW so Smite is fairly weak, (you might as well bank on Skullcrack if you want to use Smite) I fear the 2-3x domesticate from MonoBlue to dare try running something which is 3/3 has WINGS and provides LIFE.

I don't think G/x/x is that bad anymore with pump effects, MonoU is still a issue - Chains + Breath seem to be the best option (its better to provide them 4 life then it is to get blocked the whole game).

EDIT: Keftenk, while that is the goal you need to keep in
mind they have a shit load of CA its really hard to control them for too long when they almost always have the draw they want/need.

I haven't gotten to test with pyrewild yet, but I'm disheartened that people seem to already be moving away from it due to sideoarding issues...

If it's that big an issue, why not just let it help game 1, and then if you have problems leaving him in, just pull him out. Just use the same sideboard plan as before, but also remove him.

On the other hand, I think that there's potential for leaving him in, and just rethinking and trying new sideboard ideas. I mean, isn't that what we always do?


Basically this is me asking if there really is no way to make pyrewild work.

I haven't gotten to test with pyrewild yet, but I'm disheartened that people seem to already be moving away from it due to sideoarding issues...

If it's that big an issue, why not just let it help game 1, and then if you have problems leaving him in, just pull him out. Just use the same sideboard plan as before, but also remove him.

On the other hand, I think that there's potential for leaving him in, and just rethinking and trying new sideboard ideas. I mean, isn't that what we always do?


Basically this is me asking if there really is no way to make pyrewild work.

Your playing PyroRed right? He is great in PyroRed - I don't have enough full in
my boards to get huge value from pyrewild unless I make a few changes to my maindeck (which is what I'm trying now, I like pump effects vs walls).

People starting to play Pyrewild Shaman?
Better dig all of the posts saying "no yarpus, this card is unplayable shit" "uninstall, scrub".
Haheueh.

I'd actually say - playing him as 1-off is fine. He's not a kind of card that works well in multiples while he works amazingly when you actually draw onto singleton copy. He provides the hatefuel you just need to beat your opponent. He's good in two important matchups - Midranges and Controls. He allows you to trade your stuff with Midrange decks. Better have Selesnya Charm for 5/3 Ash Zealot trading with your big, bad boy. Against control, he brings inevitability. They can spend removal, sweepers and counterspells and he's still back for some more beating. And he screws Last Breath
which is a nice mini-bonus.
Against Aggro he's just worse Chandra's Phoenix with possible maindeck Satyr punisher. They want to block Cackler with Satyr? Make it no trade and 5 damage to the face. Funzies.
petable removal d) fuck your jace son.

As overall, list of junky cards I would consider in deckbuilding process:
1. Firemane Avenger
He blends well with the Walter White philosophy. You have strong token generator and Mutavaults to make sure you can rely on it's helix. Actually FA might be a solution for Mono Blue. He kills Nightveil Specter, they have no removal to contain your battalion, huge lifegain swings help at stabilizing and triggers say "fuck you jace". Oh, any it's trigger can kill nearly anything in their deck except of huge Cloudfin Raptor, Thassa and Master of Waves.

2. Ordeal of Purphoros/Heliod
Wouldn't that card be any good against non-removal decks? Mostly midranges and monoblue. Not sure if it fits PyroRed at all though.

3. Smite
Another cheap removal. I
know it's really limited but it's better than most of stuff we already played with.

4. Shrivel
Kills lots of stuff in other Aggro decks while it only touches Firedrinker Satyr in our deck.

5. Blood Scrivener
Burn deck with insane draw? Count me in.

Access to blue could be cute. Fate Foretold/Ordeal of Thassa, Gainsay (SB), Ral fucking Zarek, Counterflux, Turn // Burn are all sweet. Triton Tactics? Mean.

Honestly, I've started to look to other colors for options across the meta as well Blue has some really interesting interactions, heh. Also, with the Rakdos Aggro deck from GP...just has me thinking, heh. I may just be down in the dumps lately since Esper Control has been beating up on me ;\ Freaking G2 and G3 seem impossible to win with that damn vampire out and only 2 Mizzium's boarded in, lawls.

Honestly, I've started to look to other colors for options across the meta as well Blue has some really interesting interactions, heh. Also, with the Rakdos Aggro deck from GP...just has me thinking, heh. I may just be down in the dumps lately since Esper Control has been beating up on me ;\ Freaking G2 and G3 seem impossible to win with that damn vampire out and only 2 Mizzium's boarded in, lawls.

You shouldn't be losing too Esper, with any variant beside FoM.

Try increasing your vaults or mortars and adapt, BR is a good deck but it loses quite hard to BR/x (which if Wood has anything to say about it will be a deck) and it has huge hurdles to jump to beat R/x/x
(its not a deck to play on modo) if your meta is good for Br then play Br.

I think I'm just having a really bad day. For instance, I just lost AGAIN (2 minutes ago) to Esper Control with my opponent at 2 life. I drew into 3 lands, he ended up killing me because of it. I looked at the next top 3 cards, all lands. Next card after that, Mizzium. Just getting screwed today It has caused my Esper Control stats to plummet lol Been keeping track of all my games since I first picked up PyroBoros, I'm now only favored 55.56% over Esper Control Sad day...

I think its time to drink, lol

Mizzium doesn't seem like a card you should have in the deck against control, for starters, is blood baron that unbeatable? I rather just try to draw under them then answer it. Pyrewild shaman seems to be awesome against blood baron at anytime as well, since all of your creatures (save cackler) are red

I side out my Chains for the Mizzium's. Shocks for my Boros Charms and Skullcracks.

i cant figure out what 'AoG' is

oh and I finally have a standard deck on modo but its the AIR deck that brad nelson posted haha
Trying to finish some dailies to try and build walter white or maybe just pyrored if shocklands are expensive
anyways, im excited to get modo up and running so I can contribute more

*edit* when im playing walter white, I usually side in mortars against esper. if they play baron, its extremely good and if they dont and mortars doesnt do anything, its just a mulligan which isnt too bad
you obviously can't count on this happening but i was able to mortars and kill an aetherling once

i cant figure out what 'AoG' is

oh and I finally have a standard deck on modo but its the AIR deck that brad nelson posted haha
Trying to finish some dailies to try and build walter white or maybe just pyrored if shocklands are expensive
anyways, im excited to get modo up and running so I can contribute more

Anger of the Gods, if you play smart you should be able to fund any deck any deck which isn't modern or vintage by the end of the season (I'm sitting on $420 atm).

oh duh, also what does 'shard deck' refer to?

I think I'll try to save up with just DEs and maybe 2 mans in between. I don't like 8 mans. I still have no idea what momir is

*edit* thanks for the acronym help

Shards are 3-color combinations.

Went 0-3 in three different 8-mans tonight. Really feels bad. My opponents had all the answers and I dc'd one time to come back without being able to sideboard. Funny enough I got two of my dead cards in that matchup for the second game. Definitely feels like someone was out to get me tonight.

That seems to be going around.

Just got back from my first ever first place win in my lgs Standard Monday Tournament.
Went 3-1 with the PyreRED, lost to mono red first round because I mulliganed to 5 and out of gas in the second game.
I 2-0'd my next 2 matches and played a really close match against an esper 2-1 @Round4 (I had 2 Pyrewilds that I revived and used again to win the match)

All I can say is.. Pyrewild Shaman's awesome.