[Fedoras of Salvation] - White Knights ITT

DroppinSuga · Postby **DroppinSuga** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:03 am

Admin be adminning again!

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:09 am

Has 4 Chandra proven to be decent? I was thinking 3 might be safer.

You really want one nearly every game; and you've got 8 scry effects.

Seriously, this isn't directed at you specifically, but it's not like no one ever got 2 Koth stuck in their hand and you run 4 of those no question. If the power level of the card is high enough...it's a 1 sided Font of Mythos.

DroppinSuga · Postby **DroppinSuga** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:28 am

Has 4 Chandra proven to be decent? I was thinking 3 might be safer.
You really want one nearly every game; and you've got 8 scry effects.

Seriously, this isn't directed at you specifically, but it's not like no one ever got 2 Koth stuck in their hand and you run 4 of those no question. If the power level of the card is high enough...it's a 1 sided Font of Mythos.

That's why it was a question. I was just curious.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:35 am

That's why the second part wasnt directed at you, I've been asked by three different people, so I wanted my position clearly stated in writing

DEFINITELY feel free to experiment with three; it may be that all that scry lets you find the first copy easily enough anyway.

photodyer · Postby **photodyer** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:36 am

I'm very much down with investigating Boros...wanted to do Dos Rakis, but I'm too greedy to give up the Scry land potential unless we see some more reasons to drift to the dark side.

On a totally artistic note, this has to be one of the most beautiful cards I've seen to date; there's a reason WotC wants to keep Chris Rahn on the books. I hope he still has the original when Spectrum comes around next year (to see, not buy...it will be most of a house payment):

windstrider · Postby **windstrider** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:50 am

Damn. That is a fine piece of artwork.

I'm wondering if that mana cost heralds a new reanimation spell.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:07 am

I certainly hope not. 2 years was enough.

photodyer · Postby **photodyer** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:11 am

There are already 2 reamination spells ([card]Obzedat's Aid[/card] and I don't remember the other), but the issue is that neither can be cast from the GY, which kills the "dump deck in yard, win game" strategy that Junk was able to use this season. Basically it's Angel of Despair with dying trigger tacked on, 8 cost rather than 7 and Mythic rather than Rare.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:13 am

Yeah, there's the sac. a guy then reanimate both spell, good memory Jerry. Maybe that is enough for a Reanimator deck...mmmm

photodyer · Postby **photodyer** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:22 am

Thanks for the reminder, James--it's the new card with awesome flavor:

Rescue from the Underworld

Instant (U)

As an additional cost to cast Rescue from the Underworld, sacrifice a creature.
Choose target creature card in your graveyard. Return that card and the sacrificed card to the battlefield under your control at the beginning of your next upkeep. Exile Rescue from the Underworld.

Both cards put the strategy a turn behind from the flashback cost on Unburial Rites, and of course lack the flashback redundancy. I don't know that one can live long enough against aggro to pull this off without Resto and Tusk shoring up the works. But perhaps a BW
control/midrange shell with lots of removal and big dudes in the yard...questions are whether black gets a sweeper to keep them alive and means of getting dudes to the yard.

hamfactorial · Postby **hamfactorial** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:24 am

I'm glad to find that playable Chandra is indeed playable. Additionally, I predict that we're going to crush the bad 3 color midrange brews in the first month.

windstrider · Postby **windstrider** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:39 am

Just ordered playsets of Hammer of Purphoros, Magma Jet, [card]Warleader's Helix[/card], and Lightning Strike.

Damn near broke the bank for Lightning Strike. Curse you Wizards for making me re-buy Searing Spear.

photodyer · Postby **photodyer** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:40 am

I'm glad to find that playable Chandra is indeed playable. Additionally, I predict that we're going to crush the bad 3 color midrange brews in the first month.

Yeah, her design really works for getting her on the field and getting the engine going. Windstrider was playing her in his deck last night and her coming in at 5 loyalty makes her a pain to remove without an exile effect. Most folks are going to have to use significant resources to remove her, which opens them up to getting run over by an aggressive strategy.

photodyer · Postby **photodyer** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:43 am

Just ordered playsets of Hammer of Purphoros, Magma Jet, [card]Warleader's Helix[/card], and Lightning Strike.

Damn near broke the bank for Lightning Strike. Curse you Wizards for making me re-buy Searing Spear.

Brother, I'm changing your name...

[size=150:
2l59c4gj]Hail Windstrider, Searing Seneschal of Sarcasm and Salvation[/size]

windstrider · Postby **windstrider** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:53 am

Uh, you could always use Thoughtseize on yourself to discard a card. Hello, Cabal Therapy. It's not as good as Therapy, but it would get the job done.

Re: Chandra. She's a sexy beast. Didn't help me much last night, but that was an experimental R/b build that couldn't quite get there.

Lightning Strike: There are 22 pages of people complaining about this on MtGS.

Any sarcasm used to ridicule that is about as difficult as using dynamite to kill fish in a bucket. But thank you for the compliment.

photodyer · Postby **photodyer** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:04 am

Dan, in your case it is indeed complimentary...your command of sardonic and sarcastic wit are a joy to behold.

As to the goobs in that thread...they really need a hobby.

Oh wait...

LP, of the Fires · Postby **LP, of the Fires** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:04 am

Awesome Chandra is awesome. Won a From the Vault 20 8 man single elimination win-a-box with the red deck that I've been playing for the last month. Highlights include Chandra enabling me to crush my friends Junk reanimator deck in game 2 on the draw when he gained 21 life over the course of the game including disciple of bolas'ing a thragtusk. That game wasn't even close.

I'll catch up on the discussion in a bit, but I will say that archon is pretty sexy.

TubeHunter · Postby **TubeHunter** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:05 am

The only matchup with boros I have consistently lost to today is Big R/G.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:32 am

Awesome. Notes please!

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:52 am

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politi ... 2tf8j.html

windstrider · Postby **windstrider** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:55 am

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politi ... 2tf8j.html

In some parts of the US, that kind of behavior would be more likely to get a person elected.
We live in stupid, stupid times.

LP, of the Fires · Postby **LP, of the Fires** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:07 am

Round 1: My opponent is always playing r/x something and is always asking more for advice, but sadly isn't very good and has never beaten me in a match. But this is a win a box so I'm very happy to see him as my opponent for the first round and the previous night I beat his double burning tree mayor draw so I'm feeling very confidant.

He wins the roll and has no one drop. Feeling good. My hand is a decent assortment of removal and double young pyro. He has a burning tree mauler start and gets me 12 before I have a reasonable board state of pyro, token, ash and mutavault. Assuming that he only runs around 4 searing spears as removal, I feel safe leaving ash zealot back as a blocker and I attack for several turns with mutavault while he draws threats and I draw removal. He kills pyro, I chump with tokens for a while when I eventual get him to 10 and I'm at seven with him playing off the top and me with ash zealot and
mutavault still.

Eventual he swings, I block and he ghor clans so I'm back on the defensive, but it gets to a point where I draw pyro, trade a mutavault for his last creature then switch gears and go agro with burn, tokens, and a hellrider.

Game 2, he has a fast start, and I have a slow hand but a reckoner. I think I'm safe at ten when he suicides his guys only to have him morbid brimstone volley me. I sheepishly untap, draw, attack then tell him to show me the burn. Double searing spear and pillar says game 2.

Game 3, he mulls, I have a solid hand, he has a slow hand but a reckoner. I mortars the reckoner and he directs the damage to my face when I'm at 18(again, he's not very good and he didn't have enough cards to threaten me significantly). I start beating down, he plays a Chandra(which I didn't see coming) but he has no board state and the only creature he could kill was like a freshly played noble I think. I easily win.

Round 2: Buddy playing junk reanimator. When I first started
playing again, he was letting me pilot his decks and we where splitting the product so me and him definitely have a working relationship. Luckily, I'm much better then him so I feel confidant even though this is a high variance matchup. I win the roll and he mulls to 6 keeping a grisly salvage based hand. I win before he plays anything relevant.

G2, he's on the play and I think for a while before keeping a weak hand(only threat's cackler with plenty of removal) but he has no mana-dork and I draw perfectly. While he has no board state, he does salvage twice hitting tree of redemption and tusk. He plays tree as his first creature on turn 4, I follow up with Chandra, putting him to 2. He mainphases the tree(to dodge spear) then plays tusk going to 18. I draw traitorous blood then sit there with a stupid grin on my face for 2 minutes deciding if I play act, hit up to not dead and plus Chandra for a damage or if I should hold it for something random that would stabilize him. I go with the latter option
putting him to 5. He swings with tusk at my face, places disciple of bolas going to 10. I untap, Chandra, disciple, spear the tree, take the beast and swing for hyper death damage.

Round 3: winner take all. I had played my opponent once in modern masters limited a while back, but I saw his match against my teammate in round one and saw he was playing orzhov mid with maindeck underworld connections and oblivion ring. While I like his deck a lot, seems like a very good matchup for me. Game 1, I win fairly easily. It looked close at one point as he sort of stabilized with an obzedat and had 0-ringed one of my Phoenix's, but I had the hellrider in hand and obzedat is to slow as far as lifegain goes when you're being beaten down and don't have room to blink it.

Game 2, I mull to a shitty 5 and lose. I normally scoop, but it's a win box and I want to see what spells he's willing to show me. Turn 2 blind obedience was very rough though and allowed his sorcery speed removal to get him value while he
chains desecration demons and disciples of boli(coining the plural(.

Game 3, he mulls to a bad 6 and I curve out. He said he couldn't mull to 5 because he had 3 lands, but I'm generally of the opinion that I'd rather mull then lose(though one of my teammates if rubbing off on my and the quality of my keeps have gotten much...looser).

Everyone of my friends was very happy for me, though I oddly wasn't. I had come in expecting to win because the prize funds my trip to GP Oklahoma assuming I go so defeat never seemed like an option. In all of my matches, anytime I was ahead, even, or slightly behind, Chandra was an awesome draw. The times where she was bad where in the games where generally I'm drawing dead anyways. I only played 2, but I found her about as good as hellrider and I usually played her first to get my opponent to react to her leaving me free to play hellrider against tapped out opponents. I love slowrolling threats.

Calamity · Postby **Calamity** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:16 am

Here's UB's answer to 'walkers

windstrider · Postby **windstrider** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:21 am

Murder with an upside.

Kazekirimaru · Postby **Kazekirimaru** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:28 am

Nom. Instant speed fuckery.

Kazekirimaru · Postby **Kazekirimaru** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:28 am

Shame it's not really splashable in an aggro shell.

Helios · Postby **Helios** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:31 am

Z, what do you think about -1 Chandra (or maybe a Reckoner?), +1 Hammer? The games when I don't draw hammer result in significantly less smashing; the only thing I'm nervous about is that unlike PWs, it is much less likely to die (for now). With regards to mana, the white hasn't been a problem. For reference, been playing against mono-B control, though he didn't have the new toy below. Hammer is just an absolute beating against a deck that really can't deal with it.

@admin: If you could just delete TotesHelios, that'd be great. Thanks for working your magic!

@Kaze: Mono B aggro FTW. Zen vamps return with a vengeance! #ifonly

LP, of the Fires · Postby **LP, of the Fires** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:33 am

Much more playable then murder, slightly more splashable then dreadbore with current manabases, makes people make decisions when deckbuilding, nice flavor text, and it shows a minotar literally stomping a nigga out. Hoof on chest and everything. 8/10, winner in my book.

Edit: Tits McGee, glad to see that your back.

Alex · Postby **Alex** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:34 am

Here's UB's answer to 'walkers

Holy fucking shit.

LP, of the Fires · Postby **LP, of the Fires** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:35 am

^classy as fuck per the usual.

I'm also bummed that I've never tried Chandra and liliana together in standard because after having them together in a game of modern, I'm in love. Plus'd lily, gave my opponent a free smiter, Chandra made that not an issue.

photodyer · Postby **photodyer** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:35 am

Murder with an upside.

Yes, but also a hefty bump up to rare from common. Makes sense given the power of the spell relative to Murder, but it sucks that it will be relatively costly. Starting price on SCG is $4...not back-breaking, but not cheap. Guess I'll jump in on a few now; it will likely go down eventually, but if I remember correctly, Dreadbore got a bit pricey for a while.

LP, of the Fires · Postby **LP, of the Fires** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:37 am

It's not a card you really want more then 2 of likely as classic wisdom says you should be diversifying your removal. Still, surprised and how doom blade is becoming increasingly mediocre since it's last time in standard.

Alex · Postby **Alex** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:38 am

^classy as fuck per the usual.

People never believe me when I tell them I have a degree in English. I'm sure you can't imagine why.

Helios · Postby **Helios** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:39 am

I don't think you're going to have to worry about them being much less than $4 for their life in standard. It is some of the best mono-black removal, and people are going to try and make mono black a deck just because of Thoughtseize.

photodyer · Postby **photodyer** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:44 am

I don't think you're going to have to worry about them being much less than $4 for their life in standard. It is some of the best mono-black removal, and people are going to try and make mono black a deck just because of Thoughtseize.

MaRo actually talked about giving black back some power, and indeed the color is looking stronger post-rotation than it did last year in a vacuum. I don't know if we will get to mono-black with this set, but a decent sweeper would open up the possibility of Bx control. Aggro? Don't see the creature base yet...though I would also love to get to play something on the level of Zen Vamps.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:47 am

Holy fuck. That's a good card.

I came top 10 in the state for high school English.

Holy fuck crappity fuck that card is good.

Helios · Postby **Helios** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:48 am

Clearly they were feeling the same way about Red, look at all the new toys!

Zen vampires returning was sarcasm lol. I miss that deck.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:59 am

Z, what do you think about -1 Chandra (or maybe a Reckoner?), +1 Hammer? The games when I don't draw hammer result in significantly less smashing; the only thing I'm nervous about is that unlike PWs, it is much less likely to die (for now). With regards to mana, the white hasn't been a problem. For reference, been playing against mono-B control, though he didn't have the new toy below. Hammer is just an absolute beating against a deck that really can't deal with it.

@admin: If you could just delete TotesHelios, that'd be great. Thanks for working your magic!

@Kaze: Mono B aggro FTW. Zen vamps return with a vengeance! #ifonly

I'm playing 1 hammer main, 1 board. I can see cutting a Reckoner but definitely not a Chsndra now that
they can more easily answer her.

windstrider · Postby **windstrider** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:59 am

Clearly, we're an eloquent bunch of fuckers.

photodyer · Postby **photodyer** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:08 am

Clearly they were feeling the same way about Red, look at all the new toys!

Zen vampires returning was sarcasm lol. I miss that deck.

Man it is good to have you back, brother...

Yeah I know you were making with the sarcasm...I'm just jealous over not being around during Zendikar as I've played the vamps casually and loved it.

Dies to Removal

[Fedoras of Salvation] - White Knights ITT

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