[Fedoras of Salvation] - White Knights ITT

[Christen]

If this card is not fake, then my Izzet sense is tingling too much:

[Kazekirimaru]

If this card is not fake, then my Izzet sense is tingling too much:

Runechanter's Pike decks new best friend. Assuming it's real.

I like it.

[Kazekirimaru]

Dane already posted and started discussion of this spoiler over in The Rumor Mill, but I thought it should come straight into clan discussion as it has bearing on red aggro...

Render Silent
Instant Rare
Counter target spell. Its controller can't cast spells this turn.

Too prohibitive a mana cost for the format. And even if it weren't, it's pretty bad. You can still
play instants on the stack over it, and it's not like the silence effect keeps them from drawing or declaring attacks. What deck often throws down multiple spells in one turn in Standard, anyhow? Snapcaster Control? Unless DGM brings back Storm, I don't see this making many waves.

0/10; would not bang.

[Alex]

Dane already posted and started discussion of this spoiler over in The Rumor Mill, but I thought it should come straight into clan discussion as it has bearing on red aggro...

Render Silent
Instant Rare
Counter target
spell. Its controller can't cast spells this turn.

Too prohibitive a mana cost for the format. And even if it weren't, it's pretty bad. You can still play instants on the stack over it, and it's not like the silence effect keeps them from drawing or declaring attacks. What deck often throws down multiple spells in one turn in Standard, anyhow? Snapcaster Control? Unless DGM brings back Storm, I don't see this making many waves.

0/10; would not bang.

Yeah, this card barely even stops storm, too. They can play around it.

[Kazekirimaru]

Dane already posted and started discussion of this spoiler over in The Rumor Mill, but I thought it should come straight into clan discussion as it has bearing on red aggro...

Render Silent
Instant Rare
Counter target spell. Its controller can't cast spells this turn.

Too prohibitive a mana cost for the format. And even if it weren't, it's pretty bad. You can still play instants on the stack over it, and it's not like the silence effect keeps them from drawing or declaring attacks. What deck often throws down multiple spells in one turn in Standard, anyhow? Snapcaster Control? Unless DGM brings back Storm, I don't see this making many waves.

0/10; would not bang.

Yeah, this card barely even stops storm, too. They can play around it.

Quite true. Counterflux does a more definitive job of shutting down stuff like that.

How fucking cool would Storm be in
Standard, though?

Really fucking cool. Like David Caruso putting on his sunglasses cool.

[Colonel Nohman]

I went 4-1-1 for a glorious top 4 into our win-a-box at FNM with Wolf Run Bant. I played against Bant Auras (2-1, I HATE that deck), Jund Zombie (2-1), Naya midrange (2-1), then draw for going into top 8. First match against the mirror (2-0), then bad luck double lost against the same Jund Zombie as before. 1-2 and goodbye dreams of glory. If anyone is interested in more details, I'd be glad to answer to any quesion/curiosity.

I'm liking this deck more and more. Yesterday I went to a comic convention. Too bad that I've forgotten all of my purchases into a friend's bag. I hopo that all of you have had a great weekend!

P.S.: Really cool pic Fax!

[Alex]

Dane already posted and started discussion of this spoiler over in The Rumor Mill, but I thought it should come straight into clan discussion as it has bearing on red aggro...

Render Silent [/color:
2b75800u]
Instant Rare
Counter target spell. Its controller can't cast spells this turn.

Too prohibitive a mana cost for the format. And even if it weren't, it's pretty bad. You can still play instants on the stack over it, and it's not like the silence effect keeps them from drawing or declaring attacks. What deck often throws down multiple spells in one turn in Standard, anyhow? Snapcaster Control? Unless DGM brings back Storm, I don't see this making many waves.

0/10; would not bang.

Yeah, this card barely even stops storm, too. They can play around it.[/
quote]

Quite true. Counterflux does a more definitive job of shutting down stuff like that.

How fucking cool would Storm be in Standard, though?

Really fucking cool. Like David Caruso putting on his sunglasses cool.

There is currently a storm deck in standard.

Ali Aintrazi brewed this a while back. It's probably better after Dragon's Maze. I also played a Boros version of the deck pre-GTC.

[Sasky]

Went 3-2 at WMCQ today, then decided to drop in favor of spending time with my girl. There were 176 players, quite a turnout.

Win vs. Aristocrats 2-1

Win vs. Naya Blitz 2-1

Win vs. Bant Delver 2-1

Loss vs. Grixis Control 1-2

Loss vs. UWR 0-2

[Dodger]

Good lord I had a lot of tequila tonight. This is a fairly normal development for me on a Saturday night though.

[RedNihilist]

Happy to hear of your recent happenings, Z.

I'm streaming again tonight. Standard Premier Event. Come watch me be bad at this game.

http://www.twitch.tv/valdarith

I've tried to, but twitch just kept freezing on me :

I'll watch the video tomorrow, for now I'm gonna get some sleep.

Thanks. I
could use all the advice I can get.

I will say UWR control players can go fuck themselves.

Well, it's not like an advice from me would do any good, but I've got a question on your first video: you attack with a Cackler and a Hound, he Azorius Charms and you end up drawing him again - I would have probably answered the charm by using Searing Spear on my own Hound, triggering its Undying but letting him stay on the field rather than getting bounced on my library.
He would have probably played Overloaded Mortars then, but at least I would have drawn something else - too bad I don't know what you drawed after that, as I see twitch freezed in the video

Seriously though, I would like to know if my choice would have been viable.

[windstrider]

'morning, gents.

I'm tempted to buy some Bonfires of the Damned. Yay? Nay? What's the general consensus on it these days?

[Lightning_Dolt]

Make the mistake of looking at the Aristocrats thread on Sally.... things have degenerated quickly... Glad I left to come here.

[Link]

Do you remember what sort of cards the Grixis Control was running?

Was their win con Nicol Bolas and late game stuff?

[Alex]

Do you remember what sort of cards the Grixis Control was running?

Was their win con Nicol Bolas and late game stuff?

My list's win condition was Olivia. I also played 3 Bonfires, often casting them for X=your life total as a pretty common plan B. Also 1 random Devil's Play.

[Valdarith]

[quote="[url=viewtopic.php?p=49910#p49910:2q1lh4hz]RedNihilist » Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:07 am[/url:2q1lh4hz]":2q1lh4hz][quote="[url=viewtopic.php?p=49854#p49854:2q1lh4hz]Valdarith » Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:55 am[/url:2q1lh4hz]":2q1lh4hz][quote="[url=viewtopic.php?p=49842#p49842:2q1lh4hz]RedNihilist » Sat Apr 06, 2013 8:18 pm[/url:2q1lh4hz]":2q1lh4hz][quote="[url=viewtopic.php?p=49835#p49835:2q1lh4hz]Valdarith » Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:54 am[/url:2q1lh4hz]":2q1lh4hz]Happy to hear of your recent happenings, Z.

I'm streaming again tonight. Standard Premier Event. Come watch me be bad at this game.

http://www.twitch.tv/valdarith[/
quote:2q1lh4hz]

I've tried to, but twitch just kept freezing on me :

I'll watch the video tomorrow, for now I'm gonna get some sleep.[/quote:2q1lh4hz]

Thanks. I could use all the advice I can get.

I will say UWR control players can go fuck themselves. [/quote:2q1lh4hz]

Well, it's not like an advice from me would do any good, but I've got a question on your first video: you attack with a Cackler and a Hound, he Azorius Charms and you end up drawing him again - I would have probably answered the charm by using Searing Spear on my own Hound, triggering its Undying but letting him stay on the field rather than getting bounced on my library.
He would have probably played Overloaded Mortars then, but at least I would have drawn something else - too bad I don't know what you drawed after that, as I see twitch freezed in the video

nSeriously though, I would like to know if my choice would have been viable.[/quote:2q1lh4hz]

Based on my hand, it would have been. If I didn't have the second Hound in my hand, no. Spearing my own might have gotten him Verdicted or Speared the next turn which would have been bad. Since I had the second Hound though, it would not have been a big loss.

After that, I played the other Hound in my hand, passed turn. He cast Mizzium Mortars on my Cackler and passed. I attacked with Hound next turn. He flashed in Resto Angel and I had to decide whether to Spear the Angel and keep my Hound at 2/2 (first strike damage) or let them both die and risk the Hound getting Verdicted. I end up Spearing the Angel and passing. He Revelates next turn and I lose to card advantage.

It doesn't help when you have to mulligan to 4 and 5 against UWR. I did not have a lot of luck last night to say the least. I DID beat another UWR control deck two matches later though.

[photodyer]

'morning, gents.

I'm tempted to buy some Bonfires of the Damned. Yay? Nay? What's the general consensus on it these days?

Bonfire can win games--or not. The biggest issue with it is that it induces [img]variance[/img] into your deck; as a topdeck at the right time, it can cause a blowout by resetting an aggro board; but stuck in your hand to hardcast, it means having to hit 5 mana to clear a field of X/2's. This makes it playable still for ramping decks--Jund and midrange use it to great effect to control Rx aggro--but for Dos Rakis and other Rx decks, it can be tough to get it down before getting run over in an Rx mirror.

The other factor that has taken some of the shine off of BotD is [card]Boros Reckoner[/card:
3jnn8bp9]; hitting a miracle Bonfire used to just be a straight blowout in most cases; now though, you have to know that they are getting half of a [deck]Divine Deflection[/deck] back at you if they have a Reckoner on the field when you Bonfire. As Reckoner has been trending down from ubiquitous to occasional use in Standard decks, Bonfire is getting a little safer again, but still many of the decks you want it in against are playing the tricksey wizard. Bonfire is still seeing play in Jund and such because it is thankfully scalable so you can at least use it as a scalpel to extract all their cards from the board, but "Bonfire for 5" when Reckoner is going to dome you back just isn't all that reasonable for us.

Right now, people are dumping the card; you can get a playset for around $60 on ebay, which is way down from pre-GTC and the $50+ high the card hit. That speaks to the card weakening in the competitive meta. Also, the individual sellers on Amazon are still at about
$18.95 for the cards, and usually that sort of disparity is indicative of a dump. It is still around $25 on MTGO, but DKA money rares are generally high whenever in demand there because relatively few packs were opened.

Bottom line, if I was to drop $60 in the format today, it would not be for Bonfires; the card has about 6 months of life left, and unless DGM does something to throw Reckoner out of the format, the card will not get back up to its original power level. Money would be better spent on Shocks, or possibly (HOPE) a more globally useful sweeper for red or black in the new set.

[Christen]

So out of boredom I've opened my Planeswalker 2013 pack in MTGO and created a couple of decks (mono-red goblins and mono-green stompy). It was fun picking on the newbies and then I got bored again. I made a mono-blue mill deck I named Mr. No Fun Blue. The name lives up to the deck, I had no fun playing it either (I still managed to won playing it once with milling).

[Khaospawn]

'morning, gents.

I'm tempted to buy some Bonfires of the Damned. Yay? Nay? What's the general consensus on it these days?

Morning, bud. Every time I look at my 3 Bonfires in my board and think about changing them out for Flames of the Firebrand, I think really long and hard. I get so indecisive that I irritate myself and then just say, "to hell with this." So I keep the Bonfires in and then I end up playing against a deck with Lingering Souls or a Naya Midrange deck and then I'm really glad I still have my Bonfires.

Does that make any sense? Basically, it's still a relevant card and I'm glad I have mine. I hope this helps you with you decision.

Anyway, morning all! I watched the new Evil Dead movie last night. I
must say, it wasn't too bad. Two things though, (1) don't expect to see Bruce Campbell (I'm not spoiling this for you guys; I just don't want anybody to go in there with the same high hopes I did and get disappointed) , and (2) don't expect to see the same movie we all grew up with and love. But overall, it was pretty good and it had a few awesome gore-scenes.

RE: New Izzet Champ - I don't know why, but I immediately thought EDH when I saw him. He's the new Izzet Edric!

[windstrider]

@photodyer & Khaos

Thank you, guys. I'm looking at buying only two of them. I have some stuff that I'm not using, so I might just trade for store credit to get them. I wish I could find someone to trade for them, but no one seems to want to part with the ones they have.

[photodyer]

Dane already posted and started discussion of this spoiler over in The Rumor Mill, but I thought it should come straight into clan discussion as it has bearing on red aggro...

Render Silent
Instant Rare
Counter target
spell. Its controller can't cast spells this turn.

Too prohibitive a mana cost for the format. And even if it weren't, it's pretty bad. You can still play instants on the stack over it, and it's not like the silence effect keeps them from drawing or declaring attacks. What deck often throws down multiple spells in one turn in Standard, anyhow? Snapcaster Control? Unless DGM brings back Storm, I don't see this making many waves.

0/10; would not bang.

I understand the cost prohibition...it is basically the same for UWx as Dissipate, which does see play out of the board. As to where it is applicable...BTE decks. Yes, it would be better if it cost 2CMC, but that would skew the meta by killing the BTE chain. At 3, it can still stop a BTE chain on turn 3 or better and hold off damage an extra turn to let them get Verdict
mana up. You guys may be completely correct, I freely admit, but I am saying now--out of my butt though it may be--that the card will see play at some point in Standard. You heard it here first, and I will be happy to buy beers around if I eat my hat on this one.

[photodyer]

@photodyer & Khaos

Thank you, guys. I'm looking at buying only two of them. I have some stuff that I'm not using, so I might just trade for store credit to get them. I wish I could find someone to trade for them, but no one seems to want to part with the ones they have.

See your PM box, my friend.

[RedNihilist]

Happy to hear of your recent happenings, Z.

I'm streaming again tonight.
Standard Premier Event. Come watch me be bad at this game.

http://www.twitch.tv/valdarith

I've tried to, but twitch just kept freezing on me :

I'll watch the video tomorrow, for now I'm gonna get some sleep.

Thanks. I could use all the advice I can get.

I will say UWR control players can go fuck themselves.

Well, it's not like an advice from me would do any good, but I've got a question on your first video: you attack with a Cackler and a Hound, he Azorius Charms and you end up drawing him again - I would have probably answered the charm by using Searing Spear on my own Hound, triggering its Undying but letting him stay on the field rather than getting bounced on my library.
He would have probably played Overloaded Mortars then, but at least I would have drawn something
else - too bad I don't know what you drawed after that, as I see twitch freezed in the video

Seriously though, I would like to know if my choice would have been viable.

Based on my hand, it would have been. If I didn't have the second Hound in my hand, no. Spearing my own might have gotten him Verdicted or Speared the next turn which would have been bad. Since I had the second Hound though, it would not have been a big loss.

After that, I played the other Hound in my hand, passed turn. He cast Mizzium Mortars on my Cackler and passed. I attacked with Hound next turn. He flashed in Resto Angel and I had to decide whether to Spear the Angel and keep my Hound at 2/2 (first strike damage) or let them both die and risk the Hound getting Verdicted. I end up Spearing the Angel and passing. He Revelates next turn and I lose to card advantage.

It doesn't help when you have to mulligan to 4 and 5 against
UWR. I did not have a lot of luck last night to say the least. I DID beat another UWR control deck two matches later though.

Well, I just felt like it would have been my "compulsive play" in that situation - re-drawing 4CMC hounds while still having another copy in my hand was feeling really "slow", and with the mulligan-driven slow start you were already experiencing I thought that "filtering the draw" while forcing him to answer a 3/3 double strike creature could have helped a bit (which wouldn't have mattered anyway, since he would just have overloaded Mortars).

The fact that he was just 2 turns away from a Sphincter Revelation makes me feel that said game was just plainly unwinnable from the start, as the one before.

I'll go see the other game

[Valdarith]

Happy to hear of your recent happenings, Z.

I'm streaming again tonight. Standard Premier Event. Come watch me be bad at this game.

http://www.twitch.tv/valdarith

I've tried to, but twitch just kept freezing on me :

I'll watch the video tomorrow, for now I'm gonna get some sleep.

Thanks. I could use all the advice I can get.

I will say UWR control players can go fuck themselves.

Well, it's not like an advice from me would do any good, but I've got a question on your first video: you attack with a Cackler and a Hound, he Azorius Charms and you end up drawing him again - I would have probably answered the charm by using Searing Spear on my own Hound, triggering its Undying but
letting him stay on the field rather than getting bounced on my library.
He would have probably played Overloaded Mortars then, but at least I would have drawn something else - too bad I don't know what you drawed after that, as I see twitch freezed in the video

Seriously though, I would like to know if my choice would have been viable.

Based on my hand, it would have been. If I didn't have the second Hound in my hand, no. Spearing my own might have gotten him Verdicted or Speared the next turn which would have been bad. Since I had the second Hound though, it would not have been a big loss.

After that, I played the other Hound in my hand, passed turn. He cast Mizzium Mortars on my Cackler and passed. I attacked with Hound next turn. He flashed in Resto Angel and I had to decide whether to Spear the Angel and keep my Hound at 2/2 (first strike damage) or let them both die and risk the Hound getting
Verdicted. I end up Spearing the Angel and passing. He Revelates next turn and I lose to card advantage.

It doesn't help when you have to mulligan to 4 and 5 against UWR. I did not have a lot of luck last night to say the least. I DID beat another UWR control deck two matches later though.

Well, I just felt like it would have been my "compulsive play" in that situation - re-drawing 4CMC hounds while still having another copy in my hand was feeling really "slow", and with the mulligan-driven slow start you were already experiencing I thought that "filtering the draw" while forcing him to answer a 3/3 double strike creature could have helped a bit (which wouldn't have mattered anyway, since he would just have overloaded Mortars).

The fact that he was just 2 turns away from a Sphincter Revelation makes me feel that said game was just plainly unwinnable from the start, as the one before.

I'll go see the other game

If you want to see an unwinnable game go to my last matchup against Gruul sligh. That was depressing.

[RedNihilist]

I ended up seeing the game against that monoB "control" (mass removal) guy, now I've run out of time as I have to go play some soccer for the night.
Maybe later I will see the win against UWR control - the one I actually wanted to watch - but I guess I'll skip the Gruul Sligh matchup, sorry

[Platypus]

So, Legacy Burn...

I might participate in a Legacy tournament next weekend, and I have basically two options: Legacy Burn and my counter-sliver deck. The sliver deck isn't really competitive, so that leaves me with one real option. So, I have this burn deck:

[deck]Lands
19 Mountain

Creatures
4 Goblin Guide
4 Hellspark Elemental
4 Keldon Marauders

Burn
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
4 Fireblast
4 Price of Progress
3 Sulfuric Vortex
2 Magma Jet

Sideboard
4 Smash to Smithereens
4 Pyroblast
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Volcanic Fallout[/deck]

Looks pretty standard, but what about the sideboard? I just threw something in it right now. The metagame will be competitive, because it's a trial tournament for a local money event later in the spring.

Any good Legacy Gruul-based Zoo decks around? I might be able to put something like that together as well.

Edits: what's with the
wierd deck tags?

[Alex]

Dane already posted and started discussion of this spoiler over in The Rumor Mill, but I thought it should come straight into clan discussion as it has bearing on red aggro...

Render Silent
Instant Rare
Counter target spell. Its controller can't cast spells this turn.

Too prohibitive a mana cost for the format. And even if it weren't, it's pretty bad. You can still play instants on the stack over it, and it's not like the silence effect keeps them from drawing or declaring attacks. What deck often throws down multiple spells in one turn in Standard, anyhow? Snapcaster Control? Unless DGM brings back Storm, I don't see this making many waves.

0/10; would not bang.

I understand the cost prohibition...it is basically the same for UWx as Dissipate, which does see play out of the board. As to where it is applicable...BTE decks. Yes, it would be better if it cost 2CMC,
but that would skew the meta by killing the BTE chain. At 3, it can still stop a BTE chain on turn 3 or better and hold off damage an extra turn to let them get Verdict mana up. You guys may be completely correct, I freely admit, but I am saying now--out of my butt though it may be--that the card will see play at some point in Standard. You heard it here first, and I will be happy to buy beers around if I eat my hat on this one.

If it weren't for Burning-Tree Emissary decks being in the format, Junk reanimator would stop being so god damned strong. As it stands right now, you have to try and board super sporadically because of the "stupid fast" deck and the "slow and steady" deck both being abundant.

That being said, I'm all for BTE getting shit on. I'm tired of playing games where looped Angel of Serenity is the win condition.

[Kazekirimaru]

That being said, I'm all for BTE getting shit on. I'm tired of playing games where looped Angel of Serenity is the win condition.

SO much this.

Ah, so, what's Thundermaw Hellkite going for nowadays? I was thinking of picking up a pair. Is it still worth it?

If anyone has a pair they'd like to let go, I'll be happy to arrange something. I've never actually bought/traded online, but, i'll give it a shot.

[photodyer]

If it weren't for Burning-Tree Emissary decks being in the format, Junk reanimator would stop being so god damned strong. As it stands right now, you have to try and board super sporadically because of the "stupid fast" deck and the "slow and steady" deck both being abundant.

That being said, I'm all for BTE getting shit on. I'm tired of playing games where looped Angel of Serenity is the win condition.

Very good point...the spectrum of action in playable decks right now is pretty much impossible to cover consistently, and the balance in the meta is kinda precarious. I'm more concerned with UWx getting overpowered again...I really don't want to play under aggro/control lockdown again a la Delver Standard. I'm
not saying by any means that this card does that--a 3CMC counter is too expensive to drive a meta shift alone. I'm just expressing my selfish wants for the format without any factual point here.

[Valdarith]

That being said, I'm all for BTE getting shit on. I'm tired of playing games where looped Angel of Serenity is the win condition.

SO much this.

Ah, so, what's Thundermaw Hellkite going for nowadays? I was thinking of picking up a pair. Is it still worth it?

If anyone has a pair they'd like to let go, I'll be happy to arrange something. I've never actually bought/traded online, but, i'll give it a shot.

tcgplayer.com has them at $19 low. I have three on me and they are currently on eBay for $20 a piece. I'd be
willing to trade or sell two of them to you for less if you're interested.

I think it's still a good card. It's seeing play as a one- or two-of in a few decks like UWR midrange, R/g non-sligh aggro, and Dega midrange.

[Valdarith]

If it weren't for Burning-Tree Emissary decks being in the format, Junk reanimator would stop being so god damned strong. As it stands right now, you have to try and board super sporadically because of the "stupid fast" deck and the "slow and steady" deck both being abundant.

That being said, I'm all for BTE getting shit on. I'm tired of playing games where looped Angel of Serenity is the win condition.

Very good point...the spectrum of action in playable decks right now is pretty much impossible to cover consistently, and the balance in the meta
is kinda precarious. I'm more concerned with UWx getting overpowered again...I really don't want to play under aggro/control lockdown again a la Delver Standard. I'm not saying by any means that this card does that--a 3CMC counter is too expensive to drive a meta shift alone. I'm just expressing my selfish wants for the format without any factual point here.

Well from the MTGO side I will say that my experience from the past couple of nights has really made me consider trying out the all-in RDW. It seems like everyone and their mother is playing either UWR control, Saito Gruul, or Experiment Jund. I think all-in red would be a good answer to these decks.

[Kazekirimaru]

That being said, I'm all for BTE getting shit on. I'm tired of playing games where looped Angel of Serenity is the win condition.

SO much this.

Ah, so, what's Thundermaw Hellkite going for nowadays? I was thinking of picking up a pair. Is it still worth it?

If anyone has a pair they'd like to let go, I'll be happy to arrange something. I've never actually bought/traded
online, but, i'll give it a shot.

tcgplayer.com has them at $19 low. I have three on me and they are currently on eBay for $20 a piece. I'd be willing to trade or sell two of them to you for less if you're interested.

I think it's still a good card. It's seeing play as a one- or two-of in a few decks like UWR midrange, R/g non-sligh aggro, and Dega midrange.

I think we can work something out. I'll PM you.

[Link]

I have a question about end of turn clean up phase...

If a creature has damage marked on it equal to its toughness, it dies. The question is, does this check happen after bloodrush falls off at EoT?

For example:

Bloodrush a Cackler over a Restoration angel.

The cackler has 3 damage marked on it.

So end of turn, does the +4/+4 fade away, cackler is now a 2.2 again with 3 damage and dies?

This doesn't seem right, and would make bloodrush considerably weaker, but its what two guys playing aristocrats (one playing the other's deck) said to me during a match...

[Alex]

If it weren't for Burning-Tree Emissary decks being in the format, Junk reanimator would stop being so god damned strong. As it stands right now, you have to try and board super sporadically because of the "stupid fast" deck and the "slow and steady" deck both being abundant.

That being said, I'm all for BTE getting shit on. I'm tired of playing games where looped Angel of Serenity is the win condition.

Very good point...the spectrum of action in playable decks right now is pretty much impossible to cover consistently, and the balance in the meta is
kinda precarious. I'm more concerned with UWx getting overpowered again...I really don't want to play under aggro/control lockdown again a la Delver Standard. I'm not saying by any means that this card does that--a 3CMC counter is too expensive to drive a meta shift alone. I'm just expressing my selfish wants for the format without any factual point here.

You mean like tapout control UWx? Or tempo UWx? Because tempo decks will never be a thing in this format with stuff like Centaur Healer and Azorious Charm around. This doesn't even take into account things like [card]Sphinx's Revelation[/card] driving us towards Esper in a world where reanimator is easy to hate out and turn 3-4 kills from aggro decks don't exist.

[photodyer]

I have a question about end of turn clean up phase...

If a creature has damage marked on it equal to its toughness, it dies. The question is, does this check happen after bloodrush falls off at EoT?

For example:

Bloodrush a Cackler over a Restoration angel.

The cackler has 3 damage marked on it.

So end of turn, does the +4/+4 fade away, cackler is now a 2.2 again with 3 damage and dies?

This doesn't seem right, and would make bloodrush considerably weaker, but its what two guys playing aristocrats (one playing the other's deck) said to me during a match...

No way. Combat damage is all assessed during the combat steps, and at the end of combat your creature has x toughness left (x=total toughness-combat damage). That
toughness carries through to EOT and does not check to see where it came from. So, if before EOT your creature gets Speared to take out remaining toughness, then it dies; but otherwise, it finishes the turn with toughness=x, then reverts back to a 2/2. That guy fed you a load of crap.

EDIT: To put it another way, a creature is not "marked" with "+" damage, toughness is subtracted; a pump changes toughness until EOT, so total damage (or minuses such as Mutilate) in the turn must be > total toughness of the creature to kill it.

[Link]

well in the situation my noble lived because it got a counter as well so when it "reverted back" it still had enough toughness to survive.

If it would've killed it I def would called a judge.

Glad to have you guys though ;D

[hamfactorial]

Any time a spell resolves, a player would receive priority or a new phase is entered, the game checks for State-Based Actions. One of the checks is for a creature with damage marked on it equal to its toughness. If it finds any, that creature dies and is placed in the graveyard.

At the cleanup step, all damage on all creatures is removed and all EOT effects expire simultaneously.

[Kazekirimaru]

Can it be stupid idea time?

Red-Green deck with Slumbering Dragon and Increasing Savagery? for a flying 8/8 dragon doesn't sound so bad. If it comes down early you can use it as a means of removal with Ulvenwald Tracker. I have no clue where it would fit, but I like the synergy.

[Alex]

Can it be stupid idea time?

[Kazekirimaru]

Can it be stupid idea time?

[Helios]

Mornin folks.

@Val: All-in has a tough UWR match-up. I think that decks with access to the mana for Hounds have a better game there, because he really just wrecks them. It is possible that we could SB lands and hound though, I'll bring that up in the thread.