WePick Mafia 2.0 - DAY 2 (Abandoned)

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Postby hamfactorial » Sun Oct 11, 2015 9:37 pm

Manders:

Are you asserting that Stardust used his 8 ball on Huntzilla, and the MoJo crumb was just a fakeout?

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Postby Manders » Sun Oct 11, 2015 10:17 pm

It wasn't a MoJo crumb. It was a role crumb.

Yes, I think he used his question on Huntzilla.
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Postby hamfactorial » Sun Oct 11, 2015 10:45 pm

We know that Hunt was town, and Stardust's role PM says that he will have a 50% chance to receive a truthful answer. In the other case, he'll receive an indecisive answer.

If Stardust asked the mod about Huntzilla's alignment, he would have a 50% chance to get the answer. I assume he's smart enough to ask questions where a yes/no answer would leave no ambiguity.

If Stardust asked about Hunt and got a truthful answer, he would know that he was either town, scum, or not-town or not-scum.
Claim in your next post Hunt.
Oh yeah, do that. I checked what I needed to check and it checked out.
If whatever he checked actually gave him a truthful result, he wouldn't have voted for Hunt.

Later Stardust says that Huntzilla's "meta checks out" using the same metaphor.
Ok, sweet, thanks. Meta checks out, Huntzilla is acting out his scum game. I want to quickly answer outstanding questions, then will finish this Day.
It took him a few days to read Hunt's Sally mafia meta.

I assume that in the days between him getting Hunt to L-2 and that post, he would decide that lynching a townie was a bad idea if he had a truthful result on him.

QED he didn't have a truthful result on him.

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Postby Manders » Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:03 am

I don't believe Stardust CAN ask about alignment. That particular subject is game-breaking and, as a mod, I wouldn't allow it.

For this reason, I will not vote kpaca based on y'alls theory.
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Postby rezombad » Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:36 am

I don't believe Stardust CAN ask about alignment. That particular subject is game-breaking and, as a mod, I wouldn't allow it.

For this reason, I will not vote kpaca based on y'alls theory.
Worst argument ever.
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Postby rezombad » Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:37 am

Ham i think we're on the same page.
Galspanic wrote:You post on dtr? Cool? Honestly, I don't know who posts there and who doesn't.

Galspanic wrote:I actually read that site quite a bit but its mostly because a lot of the people I used to interact with on MTGS are over there.

Manders wrote:It should be a privilege to post here

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Postby hamfactorial » Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:40 am

I don't believe Stardust CAN ask about alignment. That particular subject is game-breaking and, as a mod, I wouldn't allow it.

For this reason, I will not vote kpaca based on y'alls theory.
Didn't you say "down with modgaming" in an earlier post?

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Postby rezombad » Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:40 am

I also dont think its out of character for stardust to have voted hunt since he thought he was scum.

Especiall since he could leave that clue for us so when he dies we have a confirmed scum.

Theres no pressure to try to push a lynch onto kpaca day1 without his (stardusts) role being confirmed. Which it is now.
Galspanic wrote:You post on dtr? Cool? Honestly, I don't know who posts there and who doesn't.

Galspanic wrote:I actually read that site quite a bit but its mostly because a lot of the people I used to interact with on MTGS are over there.

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Postby Pedrobear » Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:32 am

T/S list :

Town :
rezombad
Manders
Ham

Null :
MoJo
Tordeck

Well, their lack of activity (like mine I know) made them almost unreadable, I will try to analyse their posts with the new events from D1/N1

Scum
RedNihilist

Not only because he got pretty aggressive with me but I have a strong case on him. He probably killed Stardust.

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Postby RedNihilist » Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:53 am

I know this sounds stupid, but that's good news.
The "he got pretty aggressive with me" is nonsense though.

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Postby rezombad » Mon Oct 12, 2015 2:40 pm

I know this sounds stupid, but that's good news.
The "he got pretty aggressive with me" is nonsense though.
Im looking forward to hearing his case as well.
Galspanic wrote:You post on dtr? Cool? Honestly, I don't know who posts there and who doesn't.

Galspanic wrote:I actually read that site quite a bit but its mostly because a lot of the people I used to interact with on MTGS are over there.

Manders wrote:It should be a privilege to post here

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Postby RedNihilist » Mon Oct 12, 2015 3:15 pm

Oh, I'm not - I've already got enough info to warrant you he's town.
The problem is that he's misinterpreting his info, but at least that clears him.

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Postby Pedrobear » Mon Oct 12, 2015 3:19 pm

After re-read and realizing how dumb I can be I'll add MoJo (= kpaca isnt it ?) to my scum list.

Not trying to mod game but I'm not sure that G_R killed Stardust. My thoughts are that scum has understood which role is playing Stardust and got afraid of it. They somehow have access to a second kill tonight or G_R was collateral damage from someone else.

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Postby RedNihilist » Mon Oct 12, 2015 3:26 pm

Just for the sake of it:

Mojo is not scum, and at this point of the game we can only hope he's on our side rather than being (for example) a Survivor that just needs to shorten the game.

Pedro is Chaotic Town.

I'm noob Town.

The other four players are Manders, Tordeck, ham, rezmo.
I may or may not trust Manders as town, and I also may or may not trust ham / rezmo after that exchange on Stardust's hypotetical breadcrumb.

I have absolutely no clue on Tordeck's alignment.

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Postby Dechs Kaison » Mon Oct 12, 2015 4:04 pm

Seeking replacement for MoJo. Ask your friends.


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Postby Tordeck » Mon Oct 12, 2015 7:16 pm

Why is Manders the only one that has any lick of sense?

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Postby rezombad » Mon Oct 12, 2015 7:23 pm

Oh, I'm not - I've already got enough info to warrant you he's town.
The problem is that he's misinterpreting his info, but at least that clears him.
I always forget that youre esl.
Hes calling you scum.
Galspanic wrote:You post on dtr? Cool? Honestly, I don't know who posts there and who doesn't.

Galspanic wrote:I actually read that site quite a bit but its mostly because a lot of the people I used to interact with on MTGS are over there.

Manders wrote:It should be a privilege to post here

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Postby RedNihilist » Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:28 pm

Yup, he's just wrong.
But the reason he's calling me scum is actually useful at clearing him.

(and I had to google esl...)

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Postby RedNihilist » Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:06 pm

After re-read and realizing how dumb I can be I'll add MoJo (= kpaca isnt it ?) to my scum list.

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Postby RedNihilist » Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:07 pm

Stupid "Submit" button!

Pedro, explain the post quoted above.

Ham, mind giving me your general idea on this situation?

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Postby hamfactorial » Tue Oct 13, 2015 2:26 am

Stupid "Submit" button!

Pedro, explain the post quoted above.

Ham, mind giving me your general idea on this situation?
I'm not sure why Manders and Tordeck are so against a MoJo vote. Stardust singling him out with an 8ball ability strikes me as the explanation that doesn't require any ridiculous WIFOM.

I'm not a great mafia player, so I try to stick with simple explanations and reasons for my voting. Thus I believe Stardust got an answer that caused him to vote MoJo. Stardust was town, so his motivation (a town victory) is the same as mine, so I'll go with that until someone else gives me a more compelling reason to switch my vote.

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Postby RedNihilist » Tue Oct 13, 2015 6:28 am

So you're willing to believe scum has been given a double voter?

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Postby hamfactorial » Tue Oct 13, 2015 6:44 am

Yes, GR and Stardust had powerful town roles, so a powerful scum role seems appropriate to me.

What do you think?

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Postby Pedrobear » Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:16 am

Stupid "Submit" button!

Pedro, explain the post quoted above.
Stardust get revealed that MJ is scum, scum afraid of that so they kill him.
Worst case scenario is Stardust trying to bluff a scum reveal, scum getting afraid of his role and kill him.

Red, you know what I know, do you mind helping me understand how you're not scum ?

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Postby RedNihilist » Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:55 am

Given that I can't be 100% sure that my interpretation is correct, but if you are what I think you are and I were you I'd search my role on wiki.mafiascum.net and read aloud the second point under "Use and balance".

Let's put that aside, though.
The common consensus - aka: Occam's Razor - tells us that scum has killed G_R while he has vigshotted Stardust.
Your interpretation is different and consists in scum killing Stardust and somebody else taking down G_R - but who?
Was it a town player? He would have claimed by now instead of letting people follow a wrong train of thought (if scum killed Stardust in order to protect MoJo we should be actively hunt him, as you pointed out), but nobody did.

Now, I can't force you to believe me because this game would make little sense at that point, but ask yourself what kind of setup could really support a scum faction with multiple night kills AND a double voter.

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Postby Manders » Tue Oct 13, 2015 5:35 pm

I enjoyed my days off and haven't done anything of note in this game. I should be able to later today.

I will address this real quick:
Stupid "Submit" button!

Pedro, explain the post quoted above.

Ham, mind giving me your general idea on this situation?
I'm not sure why Manders and Tordeck are so against a MoJo vote. Stardust singling him out with an 8ball ability strikes me as the explanation that doesn't require any ridiculous WIFOM.

I'm not a great mafia player, so I try to stick with simple explanations and reasons for my voting. Thus I believe Stardust got an answer that caused him to vote MoJo. Stardust was town, so his motivation (a town victory) is the same as mine, so I'll go with that until someone else gives me a more compelling reason to switch my vote.
WIFOM or not, it is sound logic that keeps me from agreeing with you guys. I'll go over it again.

Stardust's role allows him to ask 1 question each Day and 1 question each Night. You guys are asserting that, in his first post before a LARGE majority of the players had even posted, that Stardust asked the mod kpaca's alignment and was given a truthful answer that told him kpaca was, in fact, Scum.

I maintain the belief that (1) any mod worth his salt wouldn't allow such a game-breaking question to be asked and (2) that Stardust wouldn't have asked ANY question that soon in the game. He would have wanted discussion to be had and for him to get some kind of feelings about the other players before he proceeded and (3) Stardust was merely breadcrumbing his role in that completely random post.

We won't know which is correct until the game is over because, I'll agree, either COULD be the case. However, I believe my theory to be correct and will adhere to it.

Regardless, at this rate, kpaca's role will either be replaced or modkilled, so it's stupid for us to lynch him without some discussion from him (or his replacement if one can be found.)

Speaking of, someone go drag Scumbag into this flipping game. Let's get this show on the road.
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Postby hamfactorial » Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:02 pm

I don't know why Stardust would have used his 8 ball ability on a random player in the opening posts of a new game. He's not around to explain himself, but I've seen his role PM and it lines up with the flavor that he used in the MoJo vote. It's all I have to go on from him, so I'm looking at the available evidence.

Whenever I've received a mafia ability with a caveat or restriction, the mod has included it in my role PM. If our mod designed and balanced the game such that Stardust's role as written is possible and balanced, who are we to question it? The original sign-up thread said that there was a non-zero chance of the setup being bastard. My worry is that the scum team is very powerful, given Stardust and GR's role PMs. Why not give scum a double vote as a way to blend in?

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Postby Pedrobear » Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:05 pm

I'm not a Mafia proplayer but I used to play a lot of IRL Werewolf game (which is the same).

From all of you I got the feeling that we got a lot of power-role which leans toward my reasoning about :
what kind of setup could really support a scum faction with multiple night kills AND a double voter.
Exactly this, 2 scums power roles with almost all town with roles and presumably some third parties people.

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Postby Manders » Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:29 pm

I don't know why Stardust would have used his 8 ball ability on a random player in the opening posts of a new game. He's not around to explain himself, but I've seen his role PM and it lines up with the flavor that he used in the MoJo vote. It's all I have to go on from him, so I'm looking at the available evidence.

Whenever I've received a mafia ability with a caveat or restriction, the mod has included it in my role PM. If our mod designed and balanced the game such that Stardust's role as written is possible and balanced, who are we to question it? The original sign-up thread said that there was a non-zero chance of the setup being bastard. My worry is that the scum team is very powerful, given Stardust and GR's role PMs. Why not give scum a double vote as a way to blend in?
I never said Scum couldn't have a double voter and am not stating that I 100% believe kpaca is Town.

I'm saying that I do not 100% believe Stardust claimed he's Scum in that post.
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Postby Manders » Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:30 pm

Dechs Kaison, can we get a vote count, please?
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Postby Manders » Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:21 pm

rezombad, why did you wait until Ham voted kpaca to do so yourself?
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Postby rezombad » Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:20 am

Hams vote had nothing to do with mine. I was talking to you. And since you didnt have an alternative, i voted the thing that made the most sense.
Galspanic wrote:You post on dtr? Cool? Honestly, I don't know who posts there and who doesn't.

Galspanic wrote:I actually read that site quite a bit but its mostly because a lot of the people I used to interact with on MTGS are over there.

Manders wrote:It should be a privilege to post here

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Postby hamfactorial » Wed Oct 14, 2015 4:02 am

T/S list :

Town :
rezombad
Manders
Ham

Null :
MoJo
Tordeck

Well, their lack of activity (like mine I know) made them almost unreadable, I will try to analyse their posts with the new events from D1/N1

Scum
RedNihilist

Not only because he got pretty aggressive with me but I have a strong case on him. He probably killed Stardust.
What's your strong case on Red?

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Postby Dechs Kaison » Wed Oct 14, 2015 4:08 am

Votecount 2.1

MoJo (2): Ham, rezombad

Not voting: RedNihilist, Pedrobear, MoJo, Tordeck, Manders

With seven alive, it takes four to lynch.


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Postby RedNihilist » Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:33 am

Hams vote had nothing to do with mine. I was talking to you. And since you didnt have an alternative, i voted the thing that made the most sense.
Nice.
Vote rezombadumtss

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Postby Pedrobear » Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:22 am

[quote="[url=viewtopic.php?p=295589#p295589]hamfactorial » Wed Oct 14, 2015 4:02 am[/url
What's your strong case on Red?[/quote]

He targeted Stardust this night.

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Postby rezombad » Wed Oct 14, 2015 11:08 am

Ha. Nice.

unvote
Galspanic wrote:You post on dtr? Cool? Honestly, I don't know who posts there and who doesn't.

Galspanic wrote:I actually read that site quite a bit but its mostly because a lot of the people I used to interact with on MTGS are over there.

Manders wrote:It should be a privilege to post here

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Postby Manders » Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:19 pm

[quote="[url=viewtopic.php?p=295589#p295589]hamfactorial » Wed Oct 14, 2015 4:02 am[/url
What's your strong case on Red?
He targeted Stardust this night.[/quote]
Do you know this for a fact?
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Postby Manders » Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:20 pm

Ha. Nice.

unvote
Why did you just unvote?
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Postby Pedrobear » Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:13 pm

Yes, or else I wouldn't have charged him for killing Stardust.

So now, else he can claim a town power role with strong arguments or he is scum.

That's how all my though process is founded on.


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