(POST ROTATION) JESKAI BURN

Aggressive variant decks that have top 8'd a relevant event within the past 8 weeks.

Moderators: Kaitscralt, zemanjaski, Christen

User avatar
Jasper
Regular Member
Posts: 233
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:45 am
Location: Arlington, TX

Postby Jasper » Fri Sep 19, 2014 12:15 am

12 taplands, I feel like you'll have trouble casting things on curve, and lose tempo as a result.

User avatar
Jasper
Regular Member
Posts: 233
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:45 am
Location: Arlington, TX

Postby Jasper » Fri Sep 19, 2014 1:48 am

For day 1, after KTK release, I'm expecting to see a lot of small red aggro decks trying to run underneath everyone. Mainboard Searing Blood, as a 4-of seems like a good plan. My main concern is the huge amount of Midrange decks, mostly anything green. If I can't burn it out, there aren't a whole lot of options other than just trying to race a 6/6. Arbor Colossus is a huge issue.

How are we going to deal with the big dumb green guys? End Hostilities would be nice, but we have to survive to even do it. Turn to Frog is a thing, but we have to either 2-for-1 to kill something, or it has to be used in conjunction with a blocker. This forces us to really lean on Mantis Rider, because if he falls, we can't block dick. I personally don't feel safe using Enchantments right
now either, lot's of Polis Crusher floating around. Chandra, Pyromaster sure likes killing frogs as well.

User avatar
LP, of the Fires
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 4857
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:06 am

Postby LP, of the Fires » Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:07 am

You can't play chain mostly because it makes your mana-base unplayable.

I'm also telling you that the burn deck is better. Even if you have to play marginal cards like deflecting palm, the burn deck I built is good.
You gotta understand, I love the beatdown. I really do. I always have.

Beatdown is hard, though.


Patrick chapin

User avatar
Valdarith
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 5169
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:48 pm
Location: Southeast AL

Postby Valdarith » Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:33 am

You can't play chain mostly because it makes your mana-base unplayable.

I'm also telling you that the burn deck is better. Even if you have to play marginal cards like deflecting palm, the burn deck I built is good.
Your deck being able to play Chained is a big draw, but 8 Mountains is still too light for my comfort.
Image
Check out my stream! http://www.twitch.tv/valdarith

User avatar
LP, of the Fires
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 4857
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:06 am

Postby LP, of the Fires » Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:45 am

You can't play chain mostly because it makes your mana-base unplayable.

I'm also telling you that the burn deck is better. Even if you have to play marginal cards like deflecting palm, the burn deck I built is good.
Your deck being able to play Chained is a big draw, but 8 Mountains is still too light for my comfort.
I actually need to update my deck. Basically, take it, cut chains for 4 cards and it gets way better since you can improve the mana base.

I actually fully endorse putting all 4 in the board though with multiple mountains in
the board.
You gotta understand, I love the beatdown. I really do. I always have.

Beatdown is hard, though.


Patrick chapin

User avatar
Jasper
Regular Member
Posts: 233
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:45 am
Location: Arlington, TX

Postby Jasper » Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:58 am

How has Goblin Rabblemaster been doing in everyones testing? The more games I play test, the less I seem to like him. Sure, it's a powerful card, but it doesn't really fare too well against a lot of things I expect to see(Ie, dies all the time). He also doesn't heavily impact the board when he comes down, just a little 1/1 token. On the other hand, Monastery Swiftspear has been doing great in my small aggro mirrors, and even lets me attack into Courser of Kruphix when I have any 2 mana burn spell in my hand. It's great on the defense, and pretty solid on offense too. You play it turn one on the play, attack in for 1 for free, they play an elf, you Searing Blood the elf, attack for 2. 6 damage by the end of turn 2, without batting an eye.

I think that our creatures having Haste is extremely
important, and therefore, I'm going to start testing without Rabblemaster, as much as I love the card.

User avatar
magicdownunder
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 3234
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:55 pm
Location: NSW, Australia
Contact:

Postby magicdownunder » Fri Sep 19, 2014 5:18 am

[deck]CounterBurn v2[/deck]

Plan: Counter + Burn, then eventually win via threats.
Last edited by magicdownunder on Fri Sep 19, 2014 5:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
Image

Enjoy Pauper, Standard, Momir, Modern and Music? then visit my channel: Video Link

User avatar
Valdarith
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 5169
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:48 pm
Location: Southeast AL

Postby Valdarith » Fri Sep 19, 2014 5:19 am

I think that's a mistake. This is a format that is light on removal. Rabblemaster is exactly the kind of card you want.
Image
Check out my stream! http://www.twitch.tv/valdarith

User avatar
Jasper
Regular Member
Posts: 233
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:45 am
Location: Arlington, TX

Postby Jasper » Fri Sep 19, 2014 7:16 am

I think that's a mistake. This is a format that is light on removal. Rabblemaster is exactly the kind of card you want.
It's just hard, trying to fit both. I suppose that I can cut some number of Magma Jet and Lightning Strike, but then it decreases the number of 2 mana burn spells that the Swiftspear works so well with.

Also having a hard time figuring out if I want Chandra, Pyromaster in the main. So many cards that I want to play, and not enough room.

User avatar
Jamie
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 631
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:50 am

Postby Jamie » Fri Sep 19, 2014 9:16 pm


User avatar
Jasper
Regular Member
Posts: 233
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:45 am
Location: Arlington, TX

Postby Jasper » Sat Sep 20, 2014 4:23 pm

Opened a Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker at the midnight pre-release. It's a sign.

User avatar
BlakLanner
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 1173
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:51 am
Location: Lancaster, NY

Postby BlakLanner » Sat Sep 20, 2014 8:30 pm

Some testing notes:

Winners
Mindswipe: Been everything I wanted and then some. Might move to 3.
Disdainful Stroke: So many CMC 4+ spells. So worth it.
Mantis Rider: This thing is insane. It is a must-answer threat.

Losers
Swan Song: The ability to hit Courser is not worth losing the ability to hit planeswalkers. Too often I really didn't want to give my opponent the token. I have yet to pull off the Swan Song + Searing Blood combo. Moving to Negate.
Manabase: Not enough white mana. Cutting a UR Temple for a UW. UU for Nullify has been consistent by the time I want to use it.

Middling
Jeskai Charm: The extra point of mana hurts. Have not used the lifelink mode yet but the other two have proven useful. Have pulled off the "put on top in response to fetch" trick.
Deflecting Palm: When it is good, it is REALLY good. I have redirected some really big hits. Not so great against the
control and fast aggro I have been seeing. Still worth keeping in the main deck, but not a full set.
Image
DCI Rules Advisor
MTGO/Cockatrice: BlakLanner
My YouTube Channel
BlakLanner is the boogeyman created to scare the little Standard players.
Currently Playing
Standard: [mana]RWU[/mana]Jeskai
Modern: [mana]RWG[/mana]Burn, [mana]GRWUR[/mana]Slivers
Legacy: [mana]R[/mana]Burn
EDH: [mana]RWGUB[/mana]Sliver Overlord, [mana]UW[/mana]Geist of Saint Traft (Tiny Leaders)
Current decklists are posted here

User avatar
Kaitscralt
A frog among toads
Posts: 21216
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:48 am

Postby Kaitscralt » Sat Sep 20, 2014 10:12 pm

Have a list in the works, will hopefully be testing soon if I give myself a minute to relax
Standard hobos who play budget garbage should be looked upon with suspicion.

User avatar
Jasper
Regular Member
Posts: 233
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:45 am
Location: Arlington, TX

Postby Jasper » Sun Sep 21, 2014 4:57 am

Some testing notes:

Winners
Mindswipe: Been everything I wanted and then some. Might move to 3.
Disdainful Stroke: So many CMC 4+ spells. So worth it.
Mantis Rider: This thing is insane. It is a must-answer threat.

Losers
Swan Song: The ability to hit Courser is not worth losing the ability to hit planeswalkers. Too often I really didn't want to give my opponent the token. I have yet to pull off the Swan Song + Searing Blood combo. Moving to Negate.
Manabase: Not enough white mana. Cutting a UR Temple for a UW. UU for Nullify has been consistent by the time I want to use it.

Middling
Jeskai Charm: The extra point of mana hurts. Have not used the lifelink mode yet but the other two have proven useful. Have pulled off the "
put on top in response to fetch" trick.
Deflecting Palm: When it is good, it is REALLY good. I have redirected some really big hits. Not so great against the control and fast aggro I have been seeing. Still worth keeping in the main deck, but not a full set.

Nothing too surprising here, besides Mindswipe performing well. Have you had any trouble with playing so many Temples? Not sure if I can bring myself to play Mystic Monastery either.

User avatar
BlakLanner
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 1173
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:51 am
Location: Lancaster, NY

Postby BlakLanner » Sun Sep 21, 2014 5:26 am

It can get awkward with all the CIPT lands but I feel they are a necessary evil given the strict color requirements the deck has. The turns that we really want untapped lands are 3 and 5 for the most part so you can play Temples or Monastery on the other turns.
Image
DCI Rules Advisor
MTGO/Cockatrice: BlakLanner
My YouTube Channel
BlakLanner is the boogeyman created to scare the little Standard players.
Currently Playing
Standard: [mana]RWU[/mana]Jeskai
Modern: [mana]RWG[/mana]Burn, [mana]GRWUR[/mana]Slivers
Legacy: [mana]R[/mana]Burn
EDH: [mana]RWGUB[/mana]Sliver Overlord, [mana]UW[/mana]Geist of Saint Traft (Tiny Leaders)
Current decklists are posted here

User avatar
Jasper
Regular Member
Posts: 233
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:45 am
Location: Arlington, TX

Postby Jasper » Sun Sep 21, 2014 5:43 pm

[quote="BlakLanner » Sat Sep 20, 2014 10:26 pm"]It can get awkward with all the CIPT lands but I feel they are a necessary evil given the strict color requirements the deck has. The turns that we really want untapped lands are 3 and 5 for the most part so you can play Temples or Monastery on the other turns.[/quote]

I see. I'm considering running some CIPT lands, but the turn 1 and 2 in my list kind of need untapped lands so I can drop a Monastery Swiftspear, and then a burn spell on turn 2, such as a Lightning Strike to the face, or burning out a dork with Searing Blood.

Thinking about if I'd rather want Suspension Field or Banishing Light in the sideboard.

[deck]
Creatures 13
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Mantis Rider
1 Stormbreath Dragon

Walkers 2
2 Sarkhan, Dragon Speaker

Spells 21
3 Magma Jet
2 Lightning Strike
2 Deflecting Palm
4 Searing Blood
4 Jeskai Charm
4 Stoke the Flames
2 Mindswipe

Lands 24
8 Mountain
2 Island
2 Plains
4 Flooded Strand
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Shivan Reef

Sideboard 15
3 Anger of the Gods
3 Banishing Light
3 Disdainful Stroke
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Deflecting Palm
2 Negate
[/deck]

This is about where I'm at with my list. Pretty much copied BlakLanner's sideboard for now, and have dropped the draw spells.

Question: This singleton Keranos in the sideboard, what does he come in against?

User avatar
BlakLanner
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 1173
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:51 am
Location: Lancaster, NY

Postby BlakLanner » Sun Sep 21, 2014 5:55 pm

I can see why you want more untapped lands as you are on a more aggressive plan than I am. Keranos comes in against control and any attrition-based matchups. Banishing Light hits planeswalkers, of which I have seen many. That is reason enough for me to play it over Suspension Field.
Image
DCI Rules Advisor
MTGO/Cockatrice: BlakLanner
My YouTube Channel
BlakLanner is the boogeyman created to scare the little Standard players.
Currently Playing
Standard: [mana]RWU[/mana]Jeskai
Modern: [mana]RWG[/mana]Burn, [mana]GRWUR[/mana]Slivers
Legacy: [mana]R[/mana]Burn
EDH: [mana]RWGUB[/mana]Sliver Overlord, [mana]UW[/mana]Geist of Saint Traft (Tiny Leaders)
Current decklists are posted here

User avatar
Jasper
Regular Member
Posts: 233
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:45 am
Location: Arlington, TX

Postby Jasper » Mon Sep 22, 2014 1:20 pm

I'm only maybe 3 cards away from having this completed in paper. Opened ANOTHER Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker at another pre-release, putting me at 3 top 4's, out of 4 total attended. Pretty damn sweet, all with the Jeskai pack. Quiet Contemplation is a goddamn HOUSE in limited.

Anyways, back on topic. Meeting with some people on my team to proxy up some lists and get some testing done around noon. Will take some notes, and report back here.

User avatar
LP, of the Fires
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 4857
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:06 am

Postby LP, of the Fires » Tue Sep 23, 2014 2:27 am

Have a list in the works, will hopefully be testing soon if I give myself a minute to relax
Post a preliminary list so we can mock you for being a great card analyst :dance:
You gotta understand, I love the beatdown. I really do. I always have.

Beatdown is hard, though.


Patrick chapin

User avatar
Kaitscralt
A frog among toads
Posts: 21216
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:48 am

Postby Kaitscralt » Tue Sep 23, 2014 2:48 am

it's too powerful to joke about
Standard hobos who play budget garbage should be looked upon with suspicion.

User avatar
LP, of the Fires
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 4857
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:06 am

Postby LP, of the Fires » Tue Sep 23, 2014 3:11 am

I'm actually very interested in it as I'm getting closer and closer to playing jeskai at a 2k this weekend.
You gotta understand, I love the beatdown. I really do. I always have.

Beatdown is hard, though.


Patrick chapin

User avatar
BlakLanner
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 1173
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:51 am
Location: Lancaster, NY

Postby BlakLanner » Tue Sep 23, 2014 3:12 am

It would be rather useful to compare all our lists. I am sure they all have holes we can patch.
Image
DCI Rules Advisor
MTGO/Cockatrice: BlakLanner
My YouTube Channel
BlakLanner is the boogeyman created to scare the little Standard players.
Currently Playing
Standard: [mana]RWU[/mana]Jeskai
Modern: [mana]RWG[/mana]Burn, [mana]GRWUR[/mana]Slivers
Legacy: [mana]R[/mana]Burn
EDH: [mana]RWGUB[/mana]Sliver Overlord, [mana]UW[/mana]Geist of Saint Traft (Tiny Leaders)
Current decklists are posted here

User avatar
LP, of the Fires
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 4857
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:06 am

Postby LP, of the Fires » Tue Sep 23, 2014 3:26 am

I'm still on the fence about the idea of playing Narset in a burn heavy build. She's pretty close to a chandra ultimate on every swing.
You gotta understand, I love the beatdown. I really do. I always have.

Beatdown is hard, though.


Patrick chapin

User avatar
BlakLanner
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 1173
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:51 am
Location: Lancaster, NY

Postby BlakLanner » Tue Sep 23, 2014 3:28 am

I have not been impressed with Narset so far. Rarely have I attacked with her and had her survive. She will win against an empty board but that is about it.
Image
DCI Rules Advisor
MTGO/Cockatrice: BlakLanner
My YouTube Channel
BlakLanner is the boogeyman created to scare the little Standard players.
Currently Playing
Standard: [mana]RWU[/mana]Jeskai
Modern: [mana]RWG[/mana]Burn, [mana]GRWUR[/mana]Slivers
Legacy: [mana]R[/mana]Burn
EDH: [mana]RWGUB[/mana]Sliver Overlord, [mana]UW[/mana]Geist of Saint Traft (Tiny Leaders)
Current decklists are posted here

User avatar
Jasper
Regular Member
Posts: 233
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:45 am
Location: Arlington, TX

Postby Jasper » Tue Sep 23, 2014 5:18 am

Got some notes from today's testing. I'll spare everyone the notes from the Abzan Weenie's matchup, because that deck proved itself to be a steaming pile. Either that, or it has zero way to win against 2 mana burn spells in general. Searing Blood and Monastery Swiftspear means that he can never attack while I have 2 mana open, or he risks losing 2 creatures and I spend 1 card. The Abzan Midrange guy had classes all day, and then had to go to work so I didn't get to test against that.

Anyway, here's some scribblings relating to the matchup vs RUG:

His decklist: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/kaiju-shenanigans/
Halfway during testing, he decided that he hated the Temur Charm, and replaced them with [card]Stubborn
Denial[/card]. He's also running 2 Kiora instead of just 1, since he doesn't have a Sarkhan. And there are 2 Mana Confluence somewhere in there, he really needs to update the decklist on there or something.

My decklist is posted in this thread, above.


The turn 2 Savage Knuckleblade is real, and it pretty scary. The good news is that I did actually beat it in a race, thanks to Deflecting Palm, and some lucky draws set up by Magma Jet. The amount of life lost from lands is pretty good for our burn deck.

Burning out the Elvish Mystic, if you are on the play, is extremely important. No surprises there.

Icy Blast is extremely annoying, but at least you can convoke a Stoke the Flames in response to diminish the value.

The mana base for my list worked much better than
expected. If I didn't have all 3 colors available on turn 3, I generally got them by turn 5, and playing a Mantis Rider on turn 5 is still a solid play if you still have a burn spell in hand. I will say though, moving forward, I will be testing 2 Mana Confluence in place of 2 Mountains. I really like not having any CIPT lands, and this deck really needs all it's mana available at all times.

Individual card notes:
Monastery Swiftspear is fucking awesome. Punishes other aggro strategies for attack into it with mana open, and can give a very aggressive start against decks that stumble with CIPT lands and not having the colors they need. Sylvan Caryatid still bricks it for a while, but it kind of does that to most early drops anyway. This hasn't come up in testing yet, but being able to attack into a Courser of Kruphix with 2 mana open is pretty sweet
too.

Goblin Rabblemaster, I'm sorry I even doubted you. If they don't have the removal spell, then it gets out of hand quickly. It's also worth noting that he's super easy to cast, when all you need is 1 red source and anything else. When they do remove him, that just clears the way for another high impact creature. He also trades pretty favorably with the big creatures in the format.

Mantis Rider, absolutely bonkers, as expected. Great offense, great defense. Attack for 3, and then he's there to block any pesky 1 drops that stuck around, or just chump block so you can survive for the untap and burn finish.

Magma Jet is still sweet, especially given my lack of Scry. May bump it up to 4.

Lightning Strike almost always just went to the face, or eliminated a Kiora every now and then.

Searing Blood, awesome, run 4.

[card]
Deflecting Palm[/card], this over-performed for sure. I'm almost 100% on going up to 3 in the main. It got me out of a bunch of tough spots that no other card would have been able to do. All you really need to do is target a 3 power creature with it to get the value out of it. Great at screwing up combat math and letting you survive 1 more turn to win the game.

Jeskai Charm is pretty fucking sweet. The Lifelink mode is way more useful than I expected, especially if you have a Swiftspear or some Goblin tokens attacking. Definitely performed for me. Didn't use the bounce effect too often, but it was useful when I needed it. 4 damage for 3 mana is pretty nice too, when you need to top deck the killing blow.

Stoke the Flames, still great, run 4. Convoke to save your goblins, kill a Knuckleblade, kill a Courser, kill a planeswalker, etc. Great spell.

Mindswipe, underperformed. I don't think I had it
actually counter anything today, and one time I had both in my opening hand and it ruined me. Probably good in the hyper-late game, but it pretty much didn't do shit for me. 100% on removing both.

Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker, pretty sweet. Mostly used the removal mode, and forced my opponent to commit damage to him instead of my life total.

Stormbreath Dragon, 1 is fine. He's still pretty solid, and dodges a lot of the current removal in the format. Late game mana sink if you flood, strong solo finisher.


Moving forward:

Removing the 2 Mindswipe, since they didn't do dick all day. Options to fill those slots include another Deflecting Palm, more Magma Jet, or 2 Turn to Frog. My testing partners today seemed to like the idea of Turn to Frog as removal, blocking the attacking
frog, or dropping a flyer to the ground to push in some flying damage. A lot of my games today involved scenarios where one player was forced into the path of racing, and cards that let you live for another turn or 2 are super solid.

Tips from my judge buddy: Don't forget to call a judge any time your opponent forgets to show you a Morph creature when it leaves the battlefield. If it goes to his hand before showing it to you, then that's grounds for a game loss. Also, you do not have to declare Prowess triggers when you cast spells, only when they become relevant, such as when damage is dealt. Expect blowouts early on in tournaments, due to people forgetting that creatures are bigger than they look. The Prowess trigger is derived information, based on you casting a spell earlier in the turn.

User avatar
BlakLanner
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 1173
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:51 am
Location: Lancaster, NY

Postby BlakLanner » Tue Sep 23, 2014 5:27 am

I am surprised Mindswipe didn't work out for you. Maybe it is because I am playing a slightly slower game than you are. Confluence might help with the mana issues but I worry about all the damage we will end up taking. I will have to test it.

Agree with your judge buddy on morph but you should always announce your triggers. There will be judges that will say you missed them if you don't.
Image
DCI Rules Advisor
MTGO/Cockatrice: BlakLanner
My YouTube Channel
BlakLanner is the boogeyman created to scare the little Standard players.
Currently Playing
Standard: [mana]RWU[/mana]Jeskai
Modern: [mana]RWG[/mana]Burn, [mana]GRWUR[/mana]Slivers
Legacy: [mana]R[/mana]Burn
EDH: [mana]RWGUB[/mana]Sliver Overlord, [mana]UW[/mana]Geist of Saint Traft (Tiny Leaders)
Current decklists are posted here

BiddingMaster
Regular Member
Posts: 164
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:09 am
Location: atlanta, ga

Postby BiddingMaster » Tue Sep 23, 2014 5:29 am

I have come to the conclusion that my old mana base is horrible. This is what im looking at testing out next. currentl working on cockatrice right now. So far its working rather well but i still think it might fold to like a mardu blitz style deck with 12+ one drops and mardu ascendancy which ive also been working on as a backup. Its still in the works but I like the numbers so far.
[deck]
creatures

4 mantis rider
4 satyr firedancer

instant/sorceries

4 jeskai charm
3 stoke the flames
2 arc lightning
4 magma jet
4 lightning strike
4 deflecting palm
4 mindswipe

enchantments

4 chained to the rocks

lands
2 battlefield forge
2 shivan reef
4 temple of enlightenment
10 mountain
2 island
3 plains

sideboard
3 suspension field
2 chandra
1 keranos
1 arc lightning
3 scouring sands
1 man confluence
4 eidolon of the great revel
[/deck]

BiddingMaster
Regular Member
Posts: 164
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:09 am
Location: atlanta, ga

Postby BiddingMaster » Tue Sep 23, 2014 5:29 am

Got some notes from today's testing. I'll spare everyone the notes from the Abzan Weenie's matchup, because that deck proved itself to be a steaming pile. Either that, or it has zero way to win against 2 mana burn spells in general. Searing Blood and Monastery Swiftspear means that he can never attack while I have 2 mana open, or he risks losing 2 creatures and I spend 1 card. The Abzan Midrange guy had classes all day, and then had to go to work so I didn't get to test against that.

Anyway, here's some scribblings relating to the matchup vs RUG:

His decklist: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/kaiju-
shenanigans/
Halfway during testing, he decided that he hated the Temur Charm, and replaced them with Stubborn Denial. He's also running 2 Kiora instead of just 1, since he doesn't have a Sarkhan. And there are 2 Mana Confluence somewhere in there, he really needs to update the decklist on there or something.

My decklist is posted in this thread, above.


The turn 2 Savage Knuckleblade is real, and it pretty scary. The good news is that I did actually beat it in a race, thanks to Deflecting Palm, and some lucky draws set up by Magma Jet. The amount of life lost from lands is pretty good for our burn deck.

Burning out the Elvish Mystic, if you are on the play, is extremely important. No surprises there.

Icy Blast is extremely annoying,
but at least you can convoke a Stoke the Flames in response to diminish the value.

The mana base for my list worked much better than expected. If I didn't have all 3 colors available on turn 3, I generally got them by turn 5, and playing a Mantis Rider on turn 5 is still a solid play if you still have a burn spell in hand. I will say though, moving forward, I will be testing 2 Mana Confluence in place of 2 Mountains. I really like not having any CIPT lands, and this deck really needs all it's mana available at all times.

Individual card notes:
Monastery Swiftspear is fucking awesome. Punishes other aggro strategies for attack into it with mana open, and can give a very aggressive start against decks that stumble with CIPT lands and not having the colors they need. Sylvan Caryatid still bricks it for a while, but it kind of does that to most early
drops anyway. This hasn't come up in testing yet, but being able to attack into a Courser of Kruphix with 2 mana open is pretty sweet too.

Goblin Rabblemaster, I'm sorry I even doubted you. If they don't have the removal spell, then it gets out of hand quickly. It's also worth noting that he's super easy to cast, when all you need is 1 red source and anything else. When they do remove him, that just clears the way for another high impact creature. He also trades pretty favorably with the big creatures in the format.

Mantis Rider, absolutely bonkers, as expected. Great offense, great defense. Attack for 3, and then he's there to block any pesky 1 drops that stuck around, or just chump block so you can survive for the untap and burn finish.

Magma Jet is still sweet, especially given my lack of Scry. May bump it up to 4.

Lightning Strike
almost always just went to the face, or eliminated a Kiora every now and then.

Searing Blood, awesome, run 4.

Deflecting Palm, this over-performed for sure. I'm almost 100% on going up to 3 in the main. It got me out of a bunch of tough spots that no other card would have been able to do. All you really need to do is target a 3 power creature with it to get the value out of it. Great at screwing up combat math and letting you survive 1 more turn to win the game.

Jeskai Charm is pretty fucking sweet. The Lifelink mode is way more useful than I expected, especially if you have a Swiftspear or some Goblin tokens attacking. Definitely performed for me. Didn't use the bounce effect too often, but it was useful when I needed it. 4 damage for 3 mana is pretty nice too, when you need to top deck the killing blow.

Stoke the Flames, still great, run 4. Convoke to save your goblins,
kill a Knuckleblade, kill a Courser, kill a planeswalker, etc. Great spell.

Mindswipe, underperformed. I don't think I had it actually counter anything today, and one time I had both in my opening hand and it ruined me. Probably good in the hyper-late game, but it pretty much didn't do shit for me. 100% on removing both.

Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker, pretty sweet. Mostly used the removal mode, and forced my opponent to commit damage to him instead of my life total.

Stormbreath Dragon, 1 is fine. He's still pretty solid, and dodges a lot of the current removal in the format. Late game mana sink if you flood, strong solo finisher.


Moving forward:

Removing the 2 Mindswipe, since they didn't do dick all day. Options to fill those slots include another Deflecting Palm, more Magma Jet, or 2 [card]Turn
to Frog[/card]. My testing partners today seemed to like the idea of Turn to Frog as removal, blocking the attacking frog, or dropping a flyer to the ground to push in some flying damage. A lot of my games today involved scenarios where one player was forced into the path of racing, and cards that let you live for another turn or 2 are super solid.

Tips from my judge buddy: Don't forget to call a judge any time your opponent forgets to show you a Morph creature when it leaves the battlefield. If it goes to his hand before showing it to you, then that's grounds for a game loss. Also, you do not have to declare Prowess triggers when you cast spells, only when they become relevant, such as when damage is dealt. Expect blowouts early on in tournaments, due to people forgetting that creatures are bigger than they look. The Prowess trigger is derived information, based on you casting a spell earlier in the turn.

what was your list? I dont think ive
seen you post it unless i just missed it.

User avatar
Jasper
Regular Member
Posts: 233
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:45 am
Location: Arlington, TX

Postby Jasper » Tue Sep 23, 2014 5:40 am

I am surprised Mindswipe didn't work out for you. Maybe it is because I am playing a slightly slower game than you are. Confluence might help with the mana issues but I worry about all the damage we will end up taking. I will have to test it.

Agree with your judge buddy on morph but you should always announce your triggers. There will be judges that will say you missed them if you don't.
You may be right. It could have something to do with all the Temples you are playing, with the Scry letting you get ahead in either card quality or land drops in general. I very rarely get ahead in mana against green decks, and therefore, they can always pay the X cost, and I never fired off a Mindswipe for more than 5 total mana. I'm also
playing the deck very aggressively, taking lots of damage when I think I can race effectively, and the deck seems to race pretty well when your opponent takes 5+ damage per game from their own lands.



what was your list? I dont think ive seen you post it unless i just missed it.
It's on this page, page 4.

Pedros
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 995
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:20 am

Postby Pedros » Tue Sep 23, 2014 6:12 am

What about this sorcery that draws a card and shoots creature/player for number of cards in hand? Should be easily'be around 4 damage that draws you a card.
Image
Sig by NerdBoyWonder

User avatar
LP, of the Fires
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 4857
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:06 am

Postby LP, of the Fires » Tue Sep 23, 2014 7:06 am

Costs five mana.
You gotta understand, I love the beatdown. I really do. I always have.

Beatdown is hard, though.


Patrick chapin

User avatar
Jasper
Regular Member
Posts: 233
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:45 am
Location: Arlington, TX

Postby Jasper » Tue Sep 23, 2014 6:53 pm

Costs five mana.
Pretty much this. At the same time, my hand is getting low by then anyway.

More testing to be done today.

User avatar
Valdarith
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 5169
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:48 pm
Location: Southeast AL

Postby Valdarith » Tue Sep 23, 2014 7:17 pm

Could be interesting in a deck with Oracle of Bones, Steam Augury, and Treasure Cruise, but that's not burn. :)
Image
Check out my stream! http://www.twitch.tv/valdarith

User avatar
Jasper
Regular Member
Posts: 233
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:45 am
Location: Arlington, TX

Postby Jasper » Wed Sep 24, 2014 9:23 am

Added 2 Mana Confluence, 1 more Deflecting Palm, and 1 more Magma Jet. Tested out pretty well. There was only one game where Mana Confluence directly caused my death, but that was a strange game to begin with anyway, since I flooded, but all non-Mountains.

This deck is fucking sweet. Of the 4 decks I've been testing against with my squad, my worst matchup of them is still 60% in my favor game 1.

User avatar
LaZerBurn
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 1143
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:21 am
Location: Edinburgh UK

Postby LaZerBurn » Wed Sep 24, 2014 9:37 am

What did you take out for the Mana Confluence Jasper?

With 3 Deflecting Palm in the MD do you need the 4th in the SB still?

I really like the aggressive approach the deck takes, will be very interested to see how the new meta shapes up.
Image
Thanks to NerdBoyWonder for the awesome sig :)

User avatar
Purp
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 2063
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:06 pm

Postby Purp » Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:00 pm

Saw this on reddit, not sure if its good but I figured you guys might want to look at another list

[deck]

4 Mystic Monastery
4 Flooded Strand
2 Shivan Reef
2 Battlefield Forge
2 Temple of Epiphany
2 Temple of Triumph
2 Island
2 Plains
4 Mountain

4 Mantis Rider
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker

4 Magma Jet
4 Jeskai Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Stoke the Flames
3 Searing Blood
2 Deflecting Palm
2 Mindswipe
1 Suspension Field

---
3 Satyr Firedancer
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Disdainful Stroke
2 Magma Spray
1 Narset, Enlightened Master
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Searing Blood
1 Suspension Field
1 Deflecting Palm
1 Dictate of the Twin Gods
[/deck]

another more midrange list from Chapins article today

[deck]
Creatures (14)

4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Mantis Rider
2 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Brimaz, King of
Oreskos

Planeswalkers (3)

3 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker

Lands (25)

1 Island
7 Mountain
3 Plains
4 Evolving Wilds
3 Flooded Strand
4 Mystic Monastery
2 Temple of Enlightenment
1 Temple of Triumph

Spells (18)

4 Chained to the Rocks
4 Jeskai Charm
4 Lightning Strike
2 Magma Jet
4 Stoke the Flames


[/deck]
Image

yurp yurp

User avatar
Guttler
Newcomer
Posts: 60
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:34 am

Postby Guttler » Wed Sep 24, 2014 5:48 pm

What did you take out for the Mana Confluence Jasper?
I can't speak for Jasper or confirm how the manabase changed, but this was on the last page:
The mana base for my list worked much better than expected. If I didn't have all 3 colors available on turn 3, I generally got them by turn 5, and playing a Mantis Rider on turn 5 is still a solid play if you still have a burn spell in hand. I will say though, moving forward, I will be testing 2 Mana Confluence in place of 2 Mountains. I really like not having any CIPT lands, and this deck really needs all it's mana available at all times.

RedNihilist
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 1905
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 6:29 pm

Postby RedNihilist » Wed Sep 24, 2014 6:56 pm

Arigato, Saber-chan.

User avatar
Jasper
Regular Member
Posts: 233
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:45 am
Location: Arlington, TX

Postby Jasper » Wed Sep 24, 2014 8:57 pm

What did you take out for the Mana Confluence Jasper?

With 3 Deflecting Palm in the MD do you need the 4th in the SB still?

I really like the aggressive approach the deck takes, will be very interested to see how the new meta shapes up.
2 Mountains. The 4th Deflecting Palm is just there because it is super good against decks that are trying to go for big creatures.

This happened pretty often yesterday during testing, with me on the play:

T1, Mountain, Monastery Swiftspear, attack for 1
Their T1 they play a Fetch/Pain land, and then a Elf/1-drop.
My T2 is an untapped red source, Searing Blood their guy, prowess trigger, attack for 2.
n
At the end of my turn 2, they are at 13 life. Generally speaking, all I have to do at that point is just sling the rest of my hand at their face to win. Sometimes you just get these super aggressive starts, but a start like this isn't even necessary to win. Even with a slow start, say, Jetting something on T2, and then finding the appropriate mana to make your turn 3 Mantis Rider/Goblin Rabblemaster happen, you are still being very aggressive.


[deck]
Creatures 13
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Mantis Rider
1 Stormbreath Dragon

Walkers 2
2 Sarkhan, Dragon Speaker

Spells 21
4 Magma Jet
2 Lightning Strike
3 Deflecting Palm
4 Searing Blood
4 Jeskai Charm
4 Stoke the Flames


Lands 24
6 Mountain
2 Island
2 Plains
2 Mana Confluence
4 Flooded Strand
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Shivan Reef

Sideboard 15
3 Anger of the Gods
3 Banishing Light
3 Disdainful Stroke
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Keranos, God of
Storms
1 Deflecting Palm
2 Negate
[/deck]

User avatar
Purp
Tire Aficionado
Posts: 2063
(View: POSTS_VIEWTOPIC /POSTS_VIEWTOPIC_INTO)
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:06 pm

Postby Purp » Wed Sep 24, 2014 8:59 pm

I like what your putting down jasper
Image

yurp yurp


Return to “Aggressive Variants”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests