[Primer] Boros Burn

[Rhyno]

I mean, I've also had games where I've literally won without resolving a spell so I'm best buds with Mutavault right now.

[BlakLanner]

I think we are more worried about white sources as opposed to Mountains because we have 4 cards in our 75 that require a Mountain. We have at least 12 that require a white source.

[Elricity]

Wow what's with all the 10 white source mana bases lately. I want at least 11. 10 means you're not going to have a white source in your opening hand around a fourth of your games and you have a less than 50% chance of hitting one in your top 3.

My ideal mana base has 12 white sources, 12 mountains, 4 mutavaults, and 14 untapped red sources with as many scrylands as possible. That's not actually possible right now though.
12 white sources and 12 mountains gives you an 80% chance of seeing one in your opening 7 and a 50% of hitting it in your top 3 if you didn't see any which I am comfortable with.

With battlefield forge out I think my mana will be

7 Mountain
4 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
1 Temple of Silence
3 Battlefield Forge

nHitting 2 white sources is relevant but hitting two mountains isn't so 12 white 11 mountain.

Who's running 10 white sources? I think it was only Chris's list that was. I've run 11 mountain, 11 white, 18 red before when I was using 8 scry lands and it wasn't bad.

Your mana base is going to crush you painfully though. The first time your opening hand is all mutavaults and forges will not be good.

Brain, you're never going to resolve a 5 CMC sorcery against UWx that isn't immediately answered by dsphere or cleansing.

[Purp]

I'd def play Reprisal over FotF/Muta

[BrainsickHater]

I'd def play Reprisal over FotF/Muta

Yeah after typing that post I ended up shoving in the Reprisal. I find making posts very helpful for reaching decisions.

[rage_jl]

@Rhyno That 4th Mutavault is an 8th Basic Mountain in most builds and I think it will take some testing and be meta dependent for the Forges. They replace Confluence for sure but if they replace Guildgate or the additional Temples until rotation may or may not be the correct choice. There will most likely be one or two but three will probably be heavy but I don't think we know that until it's ran. All I know is the 8 Mountain 3 Vaults and 4 flex slots with Gates or Temples has been tested in hundreds of matches. When the consensus was 4 Vaults I know I ran into several games where having two cost me games and it seems to occur less often with only three, though this could be biased recall.

[Purp]

2 Forge 1 silence 1 malice > 1 forge 2 guildgate 1 silence

[zemanjaski]

I think you can definitely run two forge. The last two slots I'm unsure of.

[Elricity]

The T/T builds could try to go back to 11 W and run malice/silence if they want. Builds not on eidolon could do 2 silence since [mana]RR1[/mana] is functionally the same at 18 or 19 R. Comes down to whether scry is more consistant than the edge on mana sources. Not sure myself.

[ChrisMachado]

Man, I suck, but I'm lucky. My opponents are even worse. Just had a dude block my 1/1 token with a Master of Waves, just to take a Skullcrack in the head, message on the board:"?" and realize that his protection from red was shot down, to concede not the game, but the match. Thanks for the free booster bud!!

[zemanjaski]

He probably left to kill himself irl, which is appropriate.

[Whole]

I actually had that exact same thing. Blocks token. Skullcrack. "?" I responded with "Read skullcrack." Unfortunately he won the match

Also are there any decks besides control to side T//T in? I don't think there is, but I don't want to be missing anything.

[magicdownunder]

I actually had that exact same thing. Blocks token. Skullcrack. "?" I responded with "Read skullcrack." Unfortunately he won the match

Also are there any decks besides control to side T//T in? I don't think there is, but I don't want to be missing anything.

I also won via Token + SC

In regards with T//T it good in the mirror (but that counts as control I guess) and on the play vs some Midrange builds (if you have more [mana]B[/mana] you can go more crazy).

[Rhyno]

Who's running 10 white sources? I think it was only Chris's list that was. I've run 11 mountain, 11 white, 18 red before when I was using 8 scry lands and it wasn't bad.

Your mana base is going to crush you painfully though. The first time your opening hand is all mutavaults and forges will not be good.

The burn list in the most recent SCG Top 16 was also running 10 white sources. And a hand with only Mutavaults and Forges is the bad and unusual case but still fine in a bunch of matchups anyway. I can cut a Forge for a Mountain and go 11 White in an aggro/burn heavy meta.

[Rhyno]

I actually had that exact same thing. Blocks token. Skullcrack. "?" I responded with "Read skullcrack." Unfortunately he won the match

I've won a match because my opponent didn't block a Phoenix that was fogged with Kiora and didn't counter the skullcrack because he thought he'd just be at 1. He died to the Phoenix.

[magicdownunder]

@HK1997:

For the love of Red please post your current list - I watched your 4-0 (7263510) and was pretty much spazzing out at all the random cards which kept coming out .

It was like everything we discussed offhandedly working together to form something beyond crazy.

[Kaitscralt]

You've become incredibly egotistical, beyond DtR and Reddit, you aren't shit. You seem to constantly be reminded that you are not as good as you think you are.

well technically Zem is not shit at DTR either as he has dropped public support for the site and tells me how lousy it is every time I talk to him on Skype, I don't use Reddit so I can't speak about that

now to be fair to Zem his country is small on the grand Magic stage... but so too once was Canada and look at it now, perhaps the black magick bushland is next

a CFB affiliation is more than anyone on this site has going for them so credit is due where credit is due, but I am sure Zem is eager to prove himself with a top eight or a win in a pro event

and should that day never come DTR will
not put its stingray barb through his steve irwin heart but rather we will let him keep on paddling back to the arms of that team we've never heard of and be glad for these occasional rude visits

[magicdownunder]

I was hoping for this round of DtR Game of Thrones too die down but you had too bring it up again Kait

EDIT: That link contains spoilers for GoT if you haven't watched it yet

[Kaitscralt]

i'm always a few pages behind

[zemanjaski]

That was a touching post Kait.

[Kaitscralt]

the site needs traffic

[magicdownunder]

I'm not sure if in-site drama is the correct tool for traffic though... rather stick with magic discussions.

Don't get me wrong though, I don't mind reading pages of lover spat since I find it hilarious - however if I was a new poster and I clicked on a thread titled "Primer: Boros Burn" with pages of soap I don't think I'll be very impressed.

[zemanjaski]

Come for the magics, stay for the dramas.

[DerWille]

I stayed for the penis jokes...

Mana Base Stuff:
[deck] Post M15 Mana[/deck]

That's 11 [mana]W[/mana], 19 [mana]R[/mana], and 12 mountains. Spare mutavault is for Assemble in the side board.

[Khaospawn]

the site needs traffic

DtR needs to give the people something they can't get anywhere else- exclusive articles, lover's quarrels mixed in with strategy, nudes, whatever. Even if it's just something as lame as being the Red
Mage Mecca of the interwebs, it's still something.

Problem is, it requires a lot of people working hard for free. And it takes time.

[magicdownunder]

the site needs traffic

DtR needs to give the people something they can't get anywhere else- exclusive articles, lover's quarrels mixed in with strategy, nudes, whatever. Even if it's just something as lame as being the Red
Mage Mecca of the interwebs, it's still something.

Problem is, it requires a lot of people working hard for free. And it takes time.

We most likely have the largest collection of small Red / Burn Modo players willing too upload or stream videos (assuming these players are going inf. they should also have a solid 1750+
rating), this is good because red isn't represented by many "pro" sites.

I think our biggest weakness would be exposure and all this random page spanning ego clashes which turn away newer visitors. Though perhaps we can spam other forums showcasing how possible it is for avg players too achieve inf. / build bank with a cheap deck online - I think that would a decent pull

[Pedros]

If there would be any agressive deck other than slight or burn I would probably also help out. Currently I am only enjoying modern, might record daily or such for it.

[magicdownunder]

If there would be any agressive deck other than slight or burn I would probably also help out. Currently I am only enjoying modern, might record daily or such for it.

I'll watch it (I seem like I'll hit the QP quota much too early this season, which will hurts my motivation).

I'm thinking about trying Heal's RDW deck but I have no idea how it beats Pod, UWR Midrange or Jund.

[Pedros]

Then try out my deck. It is really good.

[HK1997]

@HK1997:

For the love of Red please post your current list - I watched your 4-0 (7263510) and was pretty much spazzing out at all the random cards which kept coming out .

It was like everything we discussed offhandedly working together to form something beyond crazy.

Ok that one was a bit crazy... The daily, not the deck. Playing the last two rounds from the wheel of my car and my girlfriend holding up the notebook for me love that woman.

[deck=HK's Roadtrip Burn]Lands 23
n8 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
3 Mutavault
2 Boros Guildgate
1 Temple of Silence
1 Temple of Malice

Creatures 08
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Satyr Firedancer

Enchantments and Removal 03
3 Chained to the Rocks

Burns 24
4 Magma Jet
4 Warleader's Helix
3 Shock
4 Skullcrack
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike

Sideboard 15
1 Wear // Tear
1 Banishing Light
1 Chained to the Rocks
1 Satyr Firedancer
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Boros Reckoner
4 Mindsparker
2 Searing Blood
1 Reprisal[/deck]

I went a little apeshit yesterday after a VERY bad monday grind (2 QPs total....) So ran back crying to mommy, Chandra, Pyromaster. She always seems to get some wins when she hits the deck (forced concession one game and triple BC'ed after a -7 the other game). Also my test decks were a little light on what I could bring in against UW control and Bx devotion and I wanted her back in vs those. Mindsparkers, because I can use them in a
lot of matchups, not because I think they are better than Eidolon or Reckoner. A 3 power firststriker (reckoner too with activation) is not to be underestimated as to how much he can carry the game on its own and pretty much never get blocked, even by rams. And because of the dancers and firststrikers there are 2 copies of searing blood. Fated has hit the bin because I face maybe one Obzedat every 25-30 games. Not having any mizziums is QUITE hairy business. You force yourself to play more conservatively in certain matchups because you know you dont have access to it and might need to 2 for one something every now and then if the dancers dont survive or show up. Chandra makes it slightly less worse not to have mortars since she give us -1 on dmg required to kill creatures. Running so many creatures W//T seems reasonable for Mono U and Dspheres.


I dropped T//T because.... well because I needed space for all those creatures. I didnt face off against UW control (thank god) but I think I might not have been
THAT bad post board. I believe the matchups were Bw midrange or devotion (BBVs post board), Sligh, Mono B aggro and another Bx devotion player. Besides still being stable vs Mono B, I cant really tell you much about this list's performance, but it DID beat UW control in the daily before that one where I bombed out 1-2 in R3.

After having a good thought and going 3-0 in a SE before that EPIC world cup game germany vs brasil , dauntless told me about his happiness of 2x hammer vs control. I've been on the recieving end of a hammer beat down before and know how bad it feels. Seems like a card that can work wonder?
So now my sideboard is becoming more of a collection of singles and two-ofs (which I like)

[deck]Sideboard Update[/deck]

The two cards I'm having my deepest thought over are the 2 searing bloods. With 4 less first-strikers it becomes less appealing and maybe something more powerful could find its spot here. I liked my short flirt with Awaken, but the problem was that you really want to only cast it on 5 mana and when then opponent is tapped out and mostly as the last dmg spell for the kill. That said, a 1RRR for 7 damage is a hell of a finisher. Probably worse than Sparktrooper tho because due to it being an enchantment+creature+land, I dont expect the Giant to live longer than one turn in most matchups unless we ar topdecking.. Im a big fan of Mindsparker. It doesnt break the game or any matchup, but it is better than the cards we get out post board vs a wide arrange of decks. Im almost auto-siding him in vs anything that runs caryiatid or no access to removal. Vs Mono B and Mono R and aggro, he makes a very good impression of Reckoner in terms of board impact and has his place in the Mono
U devo and UW control matchups as well.

So overall I'm trying to play cards that have a WIDE array of applications since I'm still consistently running into Naya, Jund, Junk, UW control, Ux devo, Mono G devo and Bx devo (by far still the king in terms of numbers). I feel that when I make customizations to the SB, it is always at the loss of efficiency in a different important matchup. As you can see I would run Mindsparker in pretty much all of the mentioned matchups, except Mono B devo and maybe Jund. The only card that is so narrow and focused that it only comes in maybe 2 matchups, is the hammer vs UW and maybe the mirror. The dancers Maindeck have not yet screwed me over. Until I draw two in g1 vs UW control and they dont even do 1 damage, Im putting them at least into the side, if not remove them completely from the deck... But value of YP+Dancer DOES happen and feels oh so good.

Despite the endless losses I had to take until the bad luck of bullshit hands (0 Mana or 1 colorless) and nut-draw
keeps of opponents (lost back to back vs WW and sligh in one daily....) finally stopped, I hit 31 QPs yesterday and will hopefully not be playing a lot more events until 35. So this is pretty much what I will be running for the rest of this season for grinding. It's not my best list, but it's been putting up results for me and winning through some crazy stuff like triple discard openers from MonoB devo, after mulling. I feel I want something POWERFUL to top deck into vs MonoB devo, after they ripped apart my hand, have taken away all removal a top deck Chandra always brightens my day.

Sorry for not having more details about the matches of the last 4-0, but I honestly cant remember much... All I can see in front of my eyes are crying brazilian fans and players and the numbers 7-1

[Khaospawn]

HK, your post isn't long enough....

[Khaospawn]

I kid. Excellent, man.

[magicdownunder]

Thanks for the post HK it's always nice when you toss in 75 random cards and things just work.

I personally think Hammer of Purphoros is horrible but that is because I like stocking up with burns and casting them all at once (I need at least 6 lands) and Elspeth tokens don't care about your 3/3 tokens (I know many of you are going say "MDU at turn 5-7 you should have almost won or have already won" but sadly when I play magic my opp. play with me so I don't away produce T5-6 wins).

[Kaitscralt]

when I said the site needs traffic I meant literally Zem in a response to my own post about his visits

[zemanjaski]

I'll be more active when standard is relevant again.

[Pedros]

I'll be more active when standard is relevant again.

GP Utreht in ~4 weeks, WMCQs starts in ~5-6 weeks. Anything going on that isnt burn?

[HK1997]

@MDU Thanks for sharing your view on hammer. I have always been sceptical about it for the reasons you listed. But if dauntless says he likes it, I must have a taste
And about the T5-6 kills... If UW has a HALF-decent hand, that is not happening anytime soon. But since our game vs control does tend to run long, I'm sure there are one or two lands i could sack or the improvement of haste on YP and tokens is nice too (in my head). Maybe sometimes even the threat is enough. Elspeth should not get more than 3 tokens out, the way you play, at which point I would argue that the free tokens off YP trade and the golems are kind of free (in the games we flood out like crazy) without trading and having a half decent chance to block FSP and threaten a combo kill on ram. Let's see how it goes. If you have a better idea for my 2 hammers, servers are
still down and I have a couple of points more to grind, let me know

[Khaospawn]

when I said the site needs traffic I meant literally Zem in a response to my own post about his visits

I may not approve of your forbidden love for him, but I will defend your right to have it.

[Tyrael]

I'll be more active when standard is relevant again.

GP Utreht in ~4 weeks, WMCQs starts in ~5-6 weeks. Anything going on that isnt burn?

Will anyone from DtR be attending GP Utrecht?

[Kaitscralt]

when I said the site needs traffic I meant literally Zem in a response to my own post about his visits

I may not approve of your forbidden love for him, but I will defend your right to have it.

telling someone their rude visits are welcome because all site traffic counts = forbidden love

and red mages wonder why people say they can barely count to 20