[Primer] Boros Burn

zenbitz · Postby **zenbitz** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:44 pm

we are sideboarding in fogs now? Makes me want to play mono blue.

Purp · Postby **Purp** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:53 pm

I am expecting to attend an event where 20% of the room will be on hexproof. I am hedging, not "we". Chances are spark trooper is just better.

zenbitz · Postby **zenbitz** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:00 pm

sorry I should have put in some smilies...

Purp · Postby **Purp** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:20 pm

[deck]SB

3 Spark Trooper
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Flamespeaker
2 Chandra
1 Chained
3 Toil
1 Mutavault
1 Wear/?Tear[/deck]

Yolo

dpaine88 · Postby **dpaine88** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:36 pm

Ok so this weekend I went to a TCG 5k event(platinum).
It was 7 rounds, 110 people. I went 6-1 in the swiss. Then ended up splitting the top4 for $1,000 each.

I brought a list very similar to MDU’s that I have been practicing with on MODO the past week.

[deck]
Lands 23
8 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
3 Mutavault
2 Boros Guildgate
1 Temple of Silence
1 Mana Confluence

Creatures 08
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Enchantments and Removal 05
4 Chained to the Rocks
1 Mizzium Mortars

Burn 24
4 Magma Jet
4 Warleader's Helix
4 Shock
4 Skullcrack
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike

Sideboard 15
4 Toil // Trouble
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Banishing Light
1 Wear/Tear
1 Keening Apparition
1 Mutavault
1 Reprisal
1 Fated Conflagration
[/deck]

Round 1 - I used some Tcg points from the last event for a bye.

Round
2 - 2-0 Win vs White Weenie Heroic. Very long grindy games but he had no real reach so I could stabilize on very low life. We crush white aggro so no surprise here.

Round 3- 2-0 Win vs Boss Sligh-- Guy sat down with no sleeves so I figured it was either a pile of shit or a fast red deck without mutavault. Won both games at 4 life..very scary.

Round 4- 2-0 Win vs Mono Black Devotion - Another juicy matchup! My opponent mulliganed a game and I destroyed him.

Round 5 0-2 Loss vs G/W aggro - "win and in" match but bad matchup as he had early guys with voice both games and Wurm and God's Willing.

Figured I could win the next one and just draw in...

Round 6 2-1 Win vs Jund Monsters --Insanely close game 3 where he gets the Bow on turn 3. I manage to chip away and scry into a banishing light after about 4 Activations of bow. I pull out a crazy victory with a topdeck
overload mortors and am able to win through his topdeck Reaper and Dragon. He missed a scry trigger last turn that would have found him the Nylea's disple sitting on top and I had no Skullcrack.

Ok now I can just draw and get into top 8...so excited!!! NOT!!! Turns out all the X-1's have to play. I agree with my opponent to split the 8th place cash at least so the loser gets $125.

Round 7 2-0 vs B/w Devotion - Another win and in and this time, I DID IT! Couldn't figure if he was Black splash white or straight B/W midrange since I saw Sin collector game 1. Turns out it was just a tiny splash so I sideboarded not so great. Game 3 he mulligans to 5 and I destroy him.

Onto the top8!!! We want to split so we all get $650 but theres just ONE GUY who wont....

Top 8 Match 2-1 Win vs B/g Devotion -- Another solid matchup . I mulligan game 1 but manage to win. Game 2 he beats me in with discard and tons of Rats. Game 3 he draws 3 early duress and
gets a cure on my mutavault(bad play by me). I have a Boros charm with him at 6 and find a Magma Jet after 2 turns to kill him. He reveals a Merchant and I am still baffled why he didnt play it as he had 2 vaults and 7 other lands so he attacked and still had 5 mana up.... didnt see 1 Phoenix the entire 3 games..

Turns out the kid who wouldnt split lost so the rest of us split the cash.

We kept playing for the Plaque though.

Top4 1-2 Loss vs G/W aggro- The same guy that beat me in the swiss for my win and in. We had extremly close games where he had the exact cards needed to win with us at very low life. We split the cash so whatever.

Khaospawn · Postby **Khaospawn** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:43 pm

Clockstalling, yeah, but even if you disregard Saito, there's Kenji, Shuhei, Mihara, and Watanabe; all of whom I'd put above Shouta.

You could take my word for it, or look up stats, facts is facts.

Edit: He's still an elite player, don't get me wrong: he's just not THAT NIGGA.

My thoughts exactly.

Also, congrats, Dan!

Khaospawn · Postby **Khaospawn** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:44 pm

[deck]SB

3 Spark Trooper
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Flamespeaker
2 Chandra
1 Chained
3 Toil
1 Mutavault
1 Wear/?Tear[/deck]

Yolo

All of my yes. :homer:

BlakLanner · Postby **BlakLanner** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:57 pm

I feel so behind the times now since I am still on an Eidolon version. I am very tempted to try out a 3/3/3 YP version again since I know I will be moving to YP once we get access to that new burn spell. I honestly think that we will start shaving Helixes to fit them.

Purp, I love it. I highly approve of taking any opportunity to bring back old Sparky.

Elricity · Postby **Elricity** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:33 pm

[deck]SB

3 Spark Trooper
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Flamespeaker
2 Chandra
1 Chained
3 Toil
1 Mutavault
1 Wear/?Tear[/deck]

Yolo

I think you're better off fitting a couple banishing light in there both for hexproof and for control. That said, I haven't tested Spark vs hexproof but it feels narrow with all the first strike and them having a better chance to race.

BlakLanner · Postby **BlakLanner** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:58 pm

Odds are that any first strikers they have will be attacking anyway. Sparky is there basically as a 6 point Helix. It is one of the same reasons we used to play them against Monsters and Mono Blue.

Purp · Postby **Purp** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:00 pm

I have never once wanted to cast banishing light against control (I seem to be the majority here?).

Keening Apparition is def better vs hexproof, but pretty bad elsewhere.

Spark Trooper + Skullcrack sometimes is enough to win the race. Plus, I like that Spark Trooper is great vs mono U, WW and Monsters

Elricity · Postby **Elricity** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:34 pm

I have never once wanted to cast banishing light against control (I seem to be the majority here?).

May be the majority, but Kait disagrees and I agree with him after testing it a while. You want removal for Jace.

MDU has been trying it and I'm fairly certain so has Z. I don't want to dig through the sneak and show video to find out.

Rhyno · Postby **Rhyno** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:45 pm

I have never once wanted to cast banishing light against control (I seem to be the majority here?).
May be the majority, but Kait disagrees and I agree with him after testing it a while. You want removal for Jace.

Yeah, I have my BL in against Control as well.

Elricity · Postby **Elricity** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:53 pm

Down with the majority!

Rhyno · Postby **Rhyno** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:10 pm

Also I'm travelling to visit family over the weekend.

I'm seriously considering ditching them and driving to an event on Sunday.
Visiting family has a 0x Planeswalker Points multiplier.

Khaospawn · Postby **Khaospawn** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:15 pm

Elricity just made the most metal post ever.

Elricity · Postby **Elricity** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:37 pm

Elricity just made the most metal post ever.

I still got it.

zenbitz · Postby **zenbitz** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:02 pm

I'll just leave this here:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-0t-j ... el_big.png

(I think there is a typo, though!)

ChrisMachado · Postby **ChrisMachado** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:35 pm

I'll just leave this here:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-0t-j ... el_big.png

(I think there is a typo, though!)

Splash of white has been really good this season, but man, that wheel made me want to splash blue! Izzet, here I come!

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:35 am

GW aggro is not a bad matchup for burn at all. It's one of the best. You're not racing though.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:36 am

Well done though.

magicdownunder · Postby **magicdownunder** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:51 am

@Purp: I think your best conventional answers vs Hexproof (which DOESN'T ruin your SB) is: [card]Wear // Tear[/card], alternately you can up your W sources into 12 and try Celestial Flare (which also happens too be great vs BW).

I've also had success with Eidolon of the Great Revel vs Hexproof:

Examples

I believe one of these choices should be best since overacting with your SB plan against a loss against vs a hinge list (which is horrible vs Bx and Control I might add) can get you killed in later event if your don't face hexproof.

@dpaine88: Great result!! GW with Godwilling is hard/Even MU (even if your in the control route since it takes about 2-burn spells too kill a creature (you won't always have the perfect answers), throw in Godwilling and things just get bad), if its get over the top you can try [card]Harness by Force[/card:
95pwanan] (which some people swear by as THE answer vs Bx Devo and Monsters as well (still not convinced sadly)) or up the Reprisal count.

- - - - - - -

I'm still working on my 75 for MODO but I think until M15 comes along this will be my 69:

[deck=MDU's Rw Burn 69]Lands 23
8 Mountain (maybe replace 1 or 2 mountains for 1-2x BR shock Lands)
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
3 Mutavault
2 Boros Guildgate (maybe replace 1 for MC)
1 Temple of Silence
1 Mana Confluence

Creatures 08
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Enchantments and Removal 05
4 Chained to the Rocks
1 Mizzium Mortars

Burn 24
4 Magma Jet
4 Warleader's Helix
4 Shock
4 Skullcrack
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike

Sideboard 09
3 Toil // Trouble
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Banishing Light
1 Reprisal
1 Fated Conflagration[/deck]

I'm thinking about either taking a "YOLO" approach and try out some old tactics or give the creature route a shot.

dpaine88 · Postby **dpaine88** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:29 am

@Zem /MDU- I personally found the matchup very tough, especially on the draw. Triple 1-drop opener into voice or Lion then just sit back with God's Willing. Gods Willing and Selesnya charm make burning his guys diffiicult when he gets ahead on board. Wurm is very hard to deal with since it owns YP tokens etc. Voice is also a pain in the ass. Oh and also Unflinching Courage(didnt draw one instant speed removal).

Was not racing at all- except one game where I had near lethal in hand from early on. I tried to control his guys but you need to have the right spells to match up against his threats and avoiding getting blown out with gods willing/charm.

Every game against GW came down to 1 turn and was incredibly close so maybe there was better lines but who knows?

I find the other aggro matchups all easier. Mono White/Black/Red being easiest- Mono Blue a little trickier sometiems. G/W being the hardest for me.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:36 am

How did you sideboard.

And triple 1 drop draws aren't the norm not are you meant to usually best them.

dpaine88 · Postby **dpaine88** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:24 am

How did you sideboard.

And triple 1 drop draws aren't the norm not are you meant to usually best them.

Took out Boros Charms and 2 Skullcrack for 2 Mortors, 2 Banishing Light, 1 Reprisal, 1 Fated Conflag

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:26 am

Chandra and Mutavault typically come in too, the lava spikes are complete blanks.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:27 am

Not having access to either Reckoner or Flamespeaker handicaps you quite a bit but you've got to dance with who you brought to the party I suppose.

dpaine88 · Postby **dpaine88** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:30 am

Yup. I wanted 2 Skullcrack in case I just needed 1 turn to blank Unflinching.

Also, wasn't sure how good Chandra was with all his flash creatures and unflinching courage/Charm- I would hate to tap out for her without 2 mana up and then she is sitting in my hand all game doing nothing till I can drop her safely. A very late game play makes sense though. He had 2 guys on the board early every game so it was hard to be in position to drop her and not just lose.

I love chandra vs the decks with more X/1's and no tramplers.

zemanjaski · Postby **zemanjaski** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:35 am

You don't care about them gaining life; the idea is to build your deck so that courage is bad. Skullcrack doesn't do that; your strategy postboard is control while Skullcrack is a racing card ~ you need to answer the creature not lava axe your opponent; Skullcrack isn't consistent with the strategy off beating them with resources.

dpaine88 · Postby **dpaine88** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:57 am

I agree with you 100%, I just wasn't sure if 2 Chandra was better than 2 Skullcrack. I thought long and hard about it while playing and in the end , did not play her against GW.

In hindsight- I should have as you are right - Skullcrack doesnt contribute to the post board strategy. I am extremely familiar with the general controlling sideboard as I have been following you since I got back into MTG and I'd say a hallmark of your play is that you are very grindy and transition your aggro decks to be more controlling/tempo based after sideboard. I just saw too many scenario's in my head where Chandra was bad. Now that I think about it- I should have had the same thoughts about Skullcrack.

I recognized 3-4 mistakes during the event. Now here's another one. I am sure there is more that I didn't.

magicdownunder · Postby **magicdownunder** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:31 am

That was interesting read, I can't say I agree on Chandra, Pyromaster here much like how I can't agree on running Chandra, Pyromaster vs the likes of RG or RW devotion due too haste and trample I'm not saying your wrong though.

I think my main issue is that I like to tackle each MU on a worst case scenario basis so rather then thinking about it like "my opponent has to have x/y to deal with Chandra" I think off it as "my opponent has 6-12 flash creatures and 8/12 enablers (trample/protection/walker) so she is just a 1 damage fog and she does nothing against the creatures which are already in play".

I do think Boros Reckoner does allot of work in this MU though just like most nonblue or nonblack MUs, I also don't think dpaine made a mistake with his SB based on his 75.

Khaospawn · Postby **Khaospawn** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:43 am

I'll just leave this here:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-0t-j ... el_big.png

(I think there is a typo, though!)

This just made my day so far.

NotARobot · Postby **NotARobot** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:41 pm

Not exactly the right place for it, but I went 8-0-1 in GP DC today! Definitely want to give a shootout to the thread for helping me play smarter magic overall! Now I have to make it through a few drafts.. wish I could just show up and play some burn! x_x
Whats the format? What are you playing?

It was a limited grand prix, day one sealed day two drafts. Unfortunately my day 2 was pretty disappointing, went 2-4 to drop from 6th place to 80th. But it was a fun experience, I think I did pretty well for my first large event, and I actually made money playing this game
for once so I can't complain haha.

dpaine88 · Postby **dpaine88** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:54 pm

With G/W, Voice gave me a lot of problems.

I didn't see Chained really at all during the matches so my only option would be to burn it. Seemed like such a waste... Maybe I should have killed it in hindsight with burn but I dont know... I did manage to Banish one but it was later than I would have liked.

How do you guys manage Voice?

I was letting it live for the most part, especially when he had 2 voices.

Purp · Postby **Purp** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:11 pm

@MDU I get that Wear is good vs them, but it's pretty abyssmal in every other matchup. I like the thought of spark trooper because it also comes in vs Mono U(which gets around all these domestication) as well as WW and Monsters

For GW: I kill their creatures until I value them out with a Phoenix, YP$ or Chandra (I've won a lot of these matches by Ulting her). I will typically kill a t2 voice with a shock/magma jet/ searing blood if I don't have a chained.

magicdownunder · Postby **magicdownunder** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:29 pm

@MDU I get that Wear is good vs them, but it's pretty abyssmal in every other matchup. I like the thought of spark trooper because it also comes in vs Mono U(which gets around all these domestication) as well as WW and Monsters

I'm shocked and impressed that you said this since I've always found you the main advocate for running 2-3 W//T while I ran none.

That said I much prefer your choice too run trooper over Pay no Heed - I personal wouldn't run trooper myself but I've seen biddingmaster/closed demolish a DE with them

dpaine88 · Postby **dpaine88** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:34 pm

@MDU I get that Wear is good vs them, but it's pretty abyssmal in every other matchup. I like the thought of spark trooper because it also comes in vs Mono U(which gets around all these domestication) as well as WW and Monsters

For GW: I kill their creatures until I value them out with a Phoenix, YP$ or Chandra (I've won a lot of these matches by Ulting her). I will typically kill a t2 voice with a shock/magma jet/ searing blood if I don't have a chained.

Ok maybe I should just kill it then. Just sucks getting automatic 2 for 1.. I basically ignored it--that could have been wrong.

I have not run into G/W with burn yet really at all-- much more last season when I was playing RDW variants. I think I need more experience but it is not played very
much.

Lets say I am on the draw and don't have a shock.

My opponent goes T1-> Exp 1 T2-> Voice.

I untap and feel very behind if I kill the voice from that point as I don't gain any tempo since his guy just turns into a 2/2 or a 3/3 or even bigger.

Purp · Postby **Purp** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:35 pm

I was a fan of wear when I knew my opponent were packing 3-4 staffs and Control still played Dspheres (all on cleansing builds at my LGS).

I just want to SUPER hedge for hexproof, because I know I will play it, and in 5-6 round events, losing 1 round early can still keep you from top 8. My thinking is that spark trooper allows me to do this, while making what I think my other tough matchup (mono U) better.

@dpaine - in that scenario, I am hoping I would have a magma jet, because I would then magma jet his Experiement one on my turn hoping to find a chained. It's hard to say what to do in each scenario with this deck without knowing contents of hand etc. GW is tough, but in your favor.

dpaine88 · Postby **dpaine88** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:37 pm

X-1 should top8 no matter what....

Purp · Postby **Purp** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:38 pm

X-1 should top8 no matter what....

X-1 with a round 1 loss can get 9th. It's happened to me twice at IQs at this LGS (both those round 1 losses were to hexproof...well 1 was a loss, the other was a draw)

Dies to Removal

[Primer] Boros Burn

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