[Primer] Boros Burn

[DefeateR]

[deck=DefeateR's Deck]
Creatures
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Young Pyromancer

Spells
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Skullcrack
4 Warleader's Helix
4 Shock
4 Chained to the Rocks
1 Mizzium Mortars

Lands
8 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
3 Mutavault
2 Boros Guildgate
1 Mana Confluence
1 Temple of Silence

Sideboard
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Prophetic Flamespeaker
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Banishing Light
1 Keening Apparition
1 Wear // Tear
1 Reprisal
1 Mizzium Mortars
[/deck]

GP Chicago Report:

Round 1: Jund Monsters(2-0)
I had answers to everything he played. He tapped out on turn 3 for a polukranos, which met a Chained to the Rocks. Next turn he tapped out again for a 2nd polukranos which I had another Chains for. After that, he was too far behind and too low on life from Phoenix and Mutavault hits that I was able to just burn him out from
there. Game 2 was more of the same, he landed an early Ruric Thar, which I wasn't exactly expecting to see, but luckily I had the chains for that as well.

1-0

Round 2: Mono Red Sligh(2-0)
He won the die roll and got off to an early start. I slowly managed to kill all of his threats and stabilize, which Phoenix and WLH were then able to closed out the game. Game 2 I again killed all of his creatures, and landed a Chandra which I eventually ultimated revealing Warleader's Helix.

2-0

Round 3: Junk Midrange(2-0)
This match was a little more difficult, but I managed to win game 1. His Courser of Kruphix revealed maindeck Blood Barons, but fortunately I didn't see any of them game 2. Young Pyromancer and Boros Reckoner allowed me to take a close game 2.

3-0

Round 4: Mono Black Devotion(0-2)
Game 1 he landed a late game park rat, which put me
dead on board next turn. He was at 6 life and I was forced to go for a double lightning strike, but he had the devour flesh. Game 2, three Grey Merchants and Staff of the Death Magus proved to be too much.

3-1

Round 5: Jund Monsters(2-1)
I won game 1 easily with Phoenix backed up by burn, answering his threats along the way. Game 2 he got ahead and managed to land back to back Nylea's Disciple which I had no skullcrack for. Game 3 was very close, magma jet allowed me to scry into exactly lethal and I took the match.

4-1

Round 6: Bw Devotion(2-0)
Game 1 went according to plan and I was able to win relatively easily. Game two he landed a turn 5 Obzedat which I had Skullcrack for. He decided to blink it out end of turn, allowing me to attack with mutavault and YP. Obzedat came back in on his upkeep, and I had the second Skullcrack. He got in for 5, and casted a post-combat Devour Flesh sacrificing
his Obzedat. Needless to say I was able to finish the game from there.

5-1

Round 7: Mono Black Devotion(2-0)
More of the same here. Chandra was an absolute all-star all weekend and was able to win me the second game.

6-1

Round 8: UW Control piloted by Raymond Perez(0-2)
Rough match. Wasn't particularly close. Was nearly able to get something together game 1, but game 2 was just a slaughter.

6-2

Round 9: Bg Devotion(2-1)
He managed to take game 1, but I was able to win a close game two. Game 3 was nothing of the sort. I dealt with all of his threats while dealing incremental damage, landed a Chandra which he didn't have an answer to and I took the match.

Day 1 record: 7-2.
This put me in 66th place in standings at the end of the day. I was feeling pretty good at this point. The Jund match up felt great, and
the Mono Black did as well. Unfortuntalely Day 2 didn't go nearly as well.

Day 2:
Round 1: BW Midrange(1-2)
Very close games overall. Obzedat, BBoV, along with Sin Collector, Duress, Thoughtseize, Devour Flesh and Pharika's Cure make for a pretty difficult match up. Game 3 I came along a familiar situation where I was dead on board to a late game pack rat, forced to go for a double Lightning Strike with him at 4, unfortunately he had the devour.

Round 2: Mono Blue Devotion(1-2)
I wasn't exactly excited for this match-up either, but I felt okay with the new sideboard plan. I was able to win game 1 fairly easily. However, he had the nut draw and there was nothing I could do. Game 3 was a close game, nearly stabalizing after a MoW with 2 YP and a Prophetic Flamespeaker on board, but I was unable to find an answer to his flyers. I actually had Prophetic Flamespeaker flip two uncastable Chandra's Phoenix's this match (The only two I kept in). That
was pretty unfortunate, but I couldn't help but laugh at the chances.

Round 3: Esper Control(0-2)
I was nearly able to close out the first game after mulling to 5 on the play. Game 2 I kept a 6 card hand with 2 lands and a Jet, which scryed two non-lands to the bottom. Didn't draw a third land for 5 more turns. At this point, being unable to cash I decided to drop and get some lunch. An unfortuante end to the tournament.

[Rhyno]

Thanks for the report. So if you could rewind to the beginning would you drop the Reckoners or move anything around?

[DefeateR]

Thanks for the report. So if you could rewind to the beginning would you drop the Reckoners or move anything around?

I believe the list is great for what the expected, and actual meta was. Mono B and Mono U were the most played decks, and the sideboard is very good against those decks. I agree with Purp's assessment on where the meta is going, and if Jund continues to decline there may be some changes to be made to help the UW match-up.

[Purp]

Great report!

[magicdownunder]

Cheers for the report, seem like cutting 4 Boros Reckoner and 3 Prophetic Flamespeaker would be correct for more control hate and 2x MM (Blue fliers and pro-white creatures).

[LaZerBurn]

Really excellent report - concise and informative

[BiddingMaster]

What are you guys boarding out for the mirror match? I cant figure it out. No matter how i board I always seem to brick for 2 turns on lands and die so there has to be a way for me to clean up the games where that happens by killing them before i do. I just dont know what the best cards to cut are. Ive tried cutting chandra's phoenix and chains/banishing light and ive tried cutting yp and im considering going creatureless except for eidolon of the great revel
here is my sideboard currently
2 chains
1 banishing light
2 chandra
2 assemble the legion
4 eidolon of the great revel
3 mizzium mortars
1 glare of heresy

[Purp]

Need to see the rest of your deck.

[HK1997]

What are you guys boarding out for the mirror match?

Well for me it highly depends on game 1. If he is a random burn mage with eidolons main, then I assume he is going to keep in phoenix's and eidolons, which leads me to this on the draw:
+3 T/T, +3 Reckoner, +2 Chandra, -1 MM, -4 YP, -2 Phoenix, -1 Chains. I have 2 Searing Bloods in the main, that I keep.
On the play I bring in all 4 phoenix's again and take out all 3 chains.

If I'm playing against a YP deck, but not a DtR member, then I board the same way, sometimes going creatureless, except for reckoners. Against someone you expect he MIGHT go creatureless (like when playing against MDU), you obviously take out SB, chains and mortars and bring in all the gas you can.

I dont
like eidolon in the mirror to be honest, especially on the draw. There are still a lot of burn decks out there that run searing blood and that is a bad time-walk I dont want to be subject to. Also there have been numerous times in the mirror when I sided in Eidolon, that I was very unhappy to top deck it or even have it on T2 when he has played an eidolon himself or tempo-plays me with searing blood or magma jet and can play his phoenix with me tapped out. YP is too slow as is only comes down on t3-t4 and only when you have another burn spell and it forces you to tap out on your turn to get your token, leaving an opening for helix from the opponent. I wouldnt keep in too many phoenix on the draw because it is only really viable on t3 or when he taps out or when you have 5 mana to keep up scullcrack and to be able to chain cast it. Hence I only really have 4 on the play, if I've decided to play creatures at all. Reckoners always come in since outside of chained to the rocks, there is no way to favorably
interact with him and he just gives 3 dmg per turn or stops a YP and or eidolon. When the opponent plays a t2 eidolon and you can follow up with a t3 reckoner, the match is shifted into your favor again and he curses himself for casting eidolon. T/T is great on T3 and more lackluster late, but still better than YP.

That said, I only see Chandra and Eidolon as your Mirror cards that you can bring in... Maybe some other one or two-of could help you out? Blind obedience is good, WR is a blowout if you draw it, peak erruptions are great as well.

[Purp]

Hitting lands is the most important aspect of the mirror, imo. First one to miss a land drop in the first 4 turns, loses from my experience.

[Purp]

Made it into CalebDs video this week:

http://www.channelfireball.com/videos/c ... -devotion/

I am the pilot for match 4, I destroyed him.

[NotARobot]

Hah I saw that vid purph. I feel like he misplayed pretty hard.. no reason to let you untap with yp in play... but yeah nice stomping

[Purp]

Yeah he def shouldn't of done that, he acknowledged that he probably should of killed it. We both joked in G2 where I went phoenix into anger, into phoenix into anger. Yes, that was a peak eruption.

[Purp]

Question for those running Shota/Z's updated lists:

Vs Monsters: Are you preferring the 4 Reckoner, 1 Reprisal, 2 Mortars plan as opposed to siding into a set of 4 mortars.

Vs Mono U (I have not played this in a little while) Are you prefering the flamespeaker + banishing light plan, as opposed to a playset of mortars?

What do you guys think about bringing in Chandra vs Mono U?

[magicdownunder]

I recommend Chandra vs Ux Devotion because your in the control route here + she has 8 targets

@Closed: With your list I'll just try and go all-In with creatures boarding out CTTR like effects and some CP (if you need extra room), that said if Burn is a major issue you can try running 1x WR or 3-4x PE.

[Purp]

More brewing, pre Flamepseaker testing. Not sure how ready I am to abandon 1 drops, they might be swingy, but they are such big game vs Bx and Control.

---

[deck]
4 Chandra's Pheonix
4 YP$

4 Shock
4 Skullcrack
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 WLH
1 Mizzium Mortar

3 Chains
1 Banishing Light

4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
3 Mutavault
1 Mana Confluence
2 Boros Guildgate
1 Temple of Silence
8 Mountain


1 Chain
1 Reprisal
1 Wear
3 Flamespeaker
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
3 Mizzium Mortars
4 Toil
[/deck]

[rage_jl]

@BiddingMaster as HK said it really depends if I can read the other player as someone who is playing the deck because of recent wins or they seem experienced with the deck. I'll usually keep 2 CTTR or 2 BL (if I think they'll have chandra) and bring in chandra and keep YP and phoenix in; sometimes I'll bring a couple reckoners in as well for the reasons HK said (I've had new burn players let me attack them for 12 with a reckoner because they didn't want the damage redirected at them...go figure). A critter heavy game can distract them where they waste their burn on your creatures or chandra while you kill them. If it goes to game 3 sometimes I'll pull the critters out and go somewhat creatureless if I can for game 3. Phoenix is the only critter I keep in against a good burn player. Don't waste shocks too early its worth timewalking by killing a phoenix or after SB some guys are running around with Sparktroopers as
mentioned earlier in this thread. Play tight and hope for a decent mix of lands and spells (I close my eyes and think of lightning bolts it usually helps).

@DefeateR thanks for the report sir and congrats on making day 2, sorry to hear about the bad beats on 2.

[BrainsickHater]

Question for those running Shota/Z's updated lists:

Vs Monsters: Are you preferring the 4 Reckoner, 1 Reprisal, 2 Mortars plan as opposed to siding into a set of 4 mortars.

Vs Mono U (I have not played this in a little while) Are you prefering the flamespeaker + banishing light plan, as opposed to a playset of mortars?

What do you guys think about bringing in Chandra vs Mono U?

I am preferring the Reckoners. It's great having something you can run out pretty much no matter what, as opposed to only reactive spells.

Haven't really played much against MU to be honest, so I can't really say.

[Purp]

Monsters seems like only matchup Id want Reckoners for. In every other matchup that you can bring in reckoner, I feel like Id rather have mortars.

[NotARobot]

Reckoner is pretty good at shutting down any agro decks as well.. It's been an easy -4 Phoenix +4 reckoners against any blitz weenie style deck.

[Elricity]

Question for those running Shota/Z's updated lists:

Vs Monsters: Are you preferring the 4 Reckoner, 1 Reprisal, 2 Mortars plan as opposed to siding into a set of 4 mortars.

Vs Mono U (I have not played this in a little while) Are you prefering the flamespeaker + banishing light plan, as opposed to a playset of mortars?

What do you guys think about bringing in Chandra vs Mono U?

You bring in the two banishing light as well. I agree with Z that the 2 banish is the only way reckoner vs monster is actually playable.

I personally don't like Chandra here as it only reliably hits judge's familiar and you can't protect her. Flamespeaker, banish, mortar. Shota was leaving in a couple skullcracks from what I saw as an out to master so take that
for what it's worth.

[Rhyno]

Question for those running Shota/Z's updated lists:

Vs Monsters: Are you preferring the 4 Reckoner, 1 Reprisal, 2 Mortars plan as opposed to siding into a set of 4 mortars.

Vs Mono U (I have not played this in a little while) Are you prefering the flamespeaker + banishing light plan, as opposed to a playset of mortars?

What do you guys think about bringing in Chandra vs Mono U?

You bring in the two banishing light as well. I agree with Z that the 2 banish is the only way reckoner vs monster is actually playable.

I personally don't like Chandra here as it only reliably hits judge'
s familiar and you can't protect her. Flamespeaker, banish, mortar. Shota was leaving in a couple skullcracks from what I saw as an out to master so take that for what it's worth.

How is Skullcrack supposed to be an out for MoW? I've never seen anyone block with MoW unless it was basically their only choice. In that game state we don't need an out anyway.
Also Flamespeaker has been garbage for me in testing, which sounds like the opposite experience as everyone else so I'll stay open to it.

[NotARobot]

I guess skullcrack forces master to take damage while blocking? I'd much rather have 4 chains and 2 BL instead of hoping for him to block with the master instead of his tokens or something though...

[Purp]

It gets to a point where you have nothing else left to take out, thats why typically skullcrack is the card left over compared to boros charm.

[Elricity]

I forgot he wasn't running the 2nd mortar. He just pulled out 4 charms and a helix (it is a bit slow) for the flamespeaker/banish package.

Guessing on my part but basically, the reason for skullcrack is he doesn't want master blanking flamespeaker on the play. He swapped a couple of the skullcracks back for charms on the draw since he was more likely to be on defense.

I stand by Chandra not being that great against it. It's slow, does little, dies easily.

Rhyno, I think only Z and I are championing flamespeaker. Has anyone else stated to have positive results?

I personally like it against any deck not running Carytid although to use it against control, you need to play in such a way that Jace is kill on sight. The flamespeaker plan is obscenely grindy against UWx which fits my playstyle at least if you've seen my videos. Kait's opinion is that flamespeaker is garbage against UW so it's possible it only picks
on poor control players. If it connects though, you are massively ahead.

I assume doesn't work well once your opponent knows you're going on a creature plan.

[BrainsickHater]

Bringing Reckoner in against MU seems questionable since they run domestication, but it's unlikely they would board that card in unless they saw some significant creatures.

That said, if I board in Flamespeaker (which I plan on doing) I should board in Reckoner.

[Purp]

Reckoner seems horribad vs Mono U

[Rhyno]

It gets to a point where you have nothing else left to take out, thats why typically skullcrack is the card left over compared to boros charm.

I'd 100% keep Boros Charm over Skullcrack then. Skullcracks are the first thing I board out.

I can see the argument with Flamespeaker though, that might actually be a tempting enough block for the MonoU player.

[Elricity]

It is basically their only out vs flamespeakers other than two or more dispel/negate unless your hand is complete garbage. Please don't be the guy who says frostburn or nightveil performs well against flamespeakers.

[Purp]

Im wondering if you could just straight up swap Mortars for Reckoners in Shotas list.

From all ive read about the creatures in his SB, it seems like you only WANT reckoner vs monsters, and only WANT falmespeaker vs mono u

[dpaine88]

Both are great against Mono-Red/White/Black aggro in my experience..

[Purp]

I think id rather have mortars vs the three you jsut listed.

[Rhyno]

It is basically their only out vs flamespeakers other than two or more dispel/negate unless your hand is complete garbage. Please don't be the guy who says frostburn or nightveil performs well against flamespeakers.

Well their other out to Flamespeaker is to just kill you, either with Flyers, Unblockable, or a huge MoW. If things go well for us, that wont be the case and we're in good shape.
I'm trying to imagine boardstates against Mono U where they're forced to block with MoW and Skullcracking isn't just win-more (and I'd want it over Boros Charm.)

Maybe I just haven't played that matchup enough with Flamespeaker but I feel like he doesn't need the help.

[magicdownunder]

I'm in agreement with Purp in regards with MM vs the 3cc creatures in most situations.

[Elricity]

It is basically their only out vs flamespeakers other than two or more dispel/negate unless your hand is complete garbage. Please don't be the guy who says frostburn or nightveil performs well against flamespeakers.

Well their other out to Flamespeaker is to just kill you, either with Flyers, Unblockable, or a huge MoW. If things go well for us, that wont be the case and we're in good shape.
I'm trying to imagine boardstates against Mono U where they're forced to block with MoW and Skullcracking isn't just win-more (and I'd want it over Boros Charm.)

Maybe I just haven't played that
matchup enough with Flamespeaker but I feel like he doesn't need the help.

I won't lie, I'm not the biggest fan of either skullcrack or charm against blue, I think it's just what he had since he was short mortars and I can appreciate wanting to get back to 3-4.

About them killing you back, drawing two extra cards a turn is kind of a problem for opposing aggro decks so it's not a good race for them.

MDU, honest question. Have you tested any of the 3 CMC creatures?

[HK1997]

I'm in agreement with Purp in regards with MM vs the 3cc creatures in most situations.

I dont see it as a black and white question that demands a commitment to 4 of either card. 3 of each (reckoner + mortars) has greatly improved my MU with monsters since I can comfortably reserve MM for either a Stormbreathdragon or to overload. Reckoner bridges the gap of having to decide what to do with the mortars for me. There have been too many games where I mortar a courser and then comes a SBD which I can no longer answer. So why not just run both? Ditch the flamespeakers and be happy I wouldnt look to either reckoner or flamespeaker as a silver
bullet vs control OR monoU (although I am suicidal and DO bring in reckoner vs MonoU - I gamble that they dont bring in or draw domestication in game 2, but if people are willing to side in Flamespeaker in this matchup, then reckoner should be an auto-slam). And in general I think it is inadvisable to play cards in Matchups where playing it, leaves us open to a time-walk (verdict, sphere) or worse (demostication, doom blade), without having made any impact at all (at the very least like leaving a 1/1 token behind). So far all the arguments I have read for Flamespeaker are predicated on this:

IF I am able to cast it and my opponent doesn't have removal, then it takes over the game....

This seems to be true for ANY creature or Chandra that we cast. The only difference being that the creatures, other than Flamespeaker, all DO something despite removal. In a matchup like UW, where they have Dsphere, BL, Azorius Charm, Verdict, last breath, planar cleansing and my favorite: Jace,
it seems like a hell of a lot of work to get one to resolve AND stick. Don't even get me started on the Esper matchup that sometimes even has me rethinking wether I should play YP or not. Hell, even Keening can be sac'ed to destroy an enchantment on board if it should get removed. I would even favor SBD as a creature to put into the side if I was forced to side in more creatures besides YP and Chandra vs UW.

I like playing this deck as a tempo deck and NOT to start playing like a midrange deck that leaves itself wide open to being time-walked. Otherwise I would be playing a monster deck. GR fatties also take over games, when they are allowed to swing in for damage...

[Elricity]

Has anyone other than Rhyno tested it or is everyone redoing what happened with the Great Revel discussion? I'd really like to know if I need to grind/log my results versus mindless theorycraft or if people have actual playtesting to back up their opinions.

[Purp]

Granted, this is all theorycrafting on my end.

[Elricity]

Granted, this is all theorycrafting on my end.

Yes, I appreciate you that you stated that.

I'm going to hit up a Baytown SCG tournament this weekend and build a report assuming I can snag the remaining cards. Should be able to.

If pack prices are finally going up enough on MTGO to justify playing there again, I'll give it a whirl there too and see if I can post some videos.

[dpaine88]

@MDU- more great videos btw, keep it up!!

Re: Reckoner etc- I just like how he basically ends the game on the spot vs those decks. Mortors is just another 2 mana spell unless its overload but if you made it that far- you should be ok.

I played a bunch vs Boss sligh Sunday and he was incredible. Shock -> Jet -> Reckoner/Flamespeaker was just too good.