[Primer] Boros Burn

[Josahty]

What's your typical sideboard plan for control?

GR isn't terribly common at my LGS either. Junk is an issue though.

[magicdownunder]

What's your typical sideboard plan for control?

GR isn't terribly common at my LGS either. Junk is an issue though.

its usually best too attempt this yourself first before asking you get more out from it, so what would you board in vs Control with your list and why?

[BrainsickHater]

Yeah MDU pretty much hit the nail on the head as far as how things on this forum go. Typically people respect questions when someone makes a clear effort to answer them on their own first. You also learn much better this way.

[zemanjaski]

Shock plus YP is the strongest interaction in the deck....

[NotARobot]

Just got back from my thursday night standard, took Shootas deck out for a spin. Round one was vs some kind of UG monster deck. Game one I saw some coursers, boon satyr, carytids, a kiora, and polukranos. In retrospect, it might have been a block deck? I'm not sure. Running 4 chains in the main plus a mortars was pretty perfect for this match, I had answers to all the stuff he played, and just got there through YP and phoenix picking away while he durdled. I brought in 4x reckoners, 2 reprisal and 2 banishing light, -4 shock, -4 skullcrack. Not sure if that sideboarding was entirely correct, but I didnt see mystics or anything I desperately wanted shocks for, and I took skullcrack out in favor of stuff that worked to keep the board clear, the 1 life he could gain off of courser was kind of insignificant with all I had to answer it. Game 2 I just had all the chains and lights I needed, never saw a reckoner, but It was an easy
2-0.

Round 2 was vs mazes end - not much to say here. If you can draw a skullcrack or two and time it right its pretty much impossible for you to lose this matchup. I boarded out my 1 mortars and 4 chains to bring in 2 chandra and 3 flamespeakers. Never saw the flamespeakers in game 2, but I did easily ult chandra for the win without him doing much.

Round 3 was vs monoblack devotion. Pretty much just outdrew my opponent here, got in early damage with mutavault and backed it up with like 12 points of burn to put the game away. Brought in 2 banishing lights, 2 reprisals, was going to bring in chandra but he said outloud he wasn't boarding out his downfalls, so I just left her in the board. -4 shocks this time. He mulled down to 6, kept a slow hand - I was able to banish his turn 3 staff, and had skullcracks for back to back merchants... It wasn't much of a match.

I really love the list - I feel like the main is tight, theres nothing I really want to change about it. I'm a little disappointed I
didnt get a chance to see the flamespeaker tonight, but I'm gonna keep testing tomorrow. Might have to crack down and get them on MTGO as well, the shoota list has been 4-0ing events pretty regularly.

[zemanjaski]

Shota is a very powerful wizard.

[Josahty]

What's your typical sideboard plan for control?

GR isn't terribly common at my LGS either. Junk is an issue though.

its usually best too attempt this yourself first before asking you get more out from it, so what would you board in vs Control with your list and why?

I tend to drive myself crazy keeping sideboard plans against the main meta decks. I like doing that, but I'm not sure how to handle the YP build. I'll give it a shot:

Control:
IN: 4 Eidolon, 2 Chandra, 2 Wear / Tear, 2 Toil / Trouble
OUT: 2 Searing, 4 Shock, 2 Chained, 2 WL Helix

Small
Aggro (generic, adaptive to matchup):
IN: 1 Banishing, 2 Chained, 2 Chandra, 4 Eidolon
OUT: 4 Boros Charm, 1 Shock, 4 Skullcrack

Big Aggro (generic, adaptive to matchup):
IN: 1 Banishing, 2 Chained, 2 Mortars
OUT: 1 Shock, 4 Skullcrack

Mirror:
IN: 4 Eidolon, 1 Chandra
OUT: 4 YP, 1 Banishing

Not a great start but I guess it's something. I'm mainly confused as to what to do with YP and removal like Chained/Mortars. Other than that I think I'm good.

I had a plan written out for my original list from my first post, so I've scrapped it and trying to make a new one.

Here's the new deck:

[deck]
Creatures (8)
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Young Pyromancer

Instant (26)
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
2 Searing Blood
4 Shock
4 Skullcrack
4 Warleader's Helix

Enchantment (3)
1 Banishing Light
2 Chained to the Rocks

Land (23)
2 Mana Confluence
4 Mutavault
9 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph

Sideboard (15)
1 Banishing Light
2 Chained to the
Rocks
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Toil / Trouble
2 Wear / Tear[/deck]

[Rhyno]

FDS is probably the best SB card against control decks, but you can't really bring it in against anything else, so I try to avoid running it when I can play T/T or EotGR. Both of them I don't mind bringing in against Bx decks.

Chandra is definitely poor at adding the extra damage before she dies, but it still happens sometimes. However, I primarily bring Chandra in against GRx because I've had a lot of games where you actually just kill everything they play to avoid dying and you both end up in topdeck mode. I can draw Chandra in these situations and can quickly pull ahead. I'm still working on the best SB plan against monsters tho, as the deck isn't prevalent in my store. Chandra's been good for me in the matchup, but if people think otherwise I
would totally understand and I wouldn't blame them for not boarding it in.

I will probably always board Chandra in against Bx as she has single-handedly won me games against that archetype multiple times. As Elricity said, they will almost always board out some number (if not all) the downfalls and the creature base is pretty crappy. Plus I board in removal to deal with the most problematic creatures.

You don't bring in FDS against Bx decks?

[BiddingMaster]

No shit its 20x cards, I was saying there are only like 4 cards with CMC that trigger it. Also, Miscutter Hydra and Rakdos Return don't trigger it. You are just asking to lose that race.

but i rarely do.

[zemanjaski]

Eidolon is bad vs Monsters; it's less bad vs Jund Monsters because that's a substantially easier matchup.

[BiddingMaster]

@BiddingMaster - do you find it strange that you board in Eidolon against almost everyone? Is this intentional trickery to set up game 3? If you really only keep it out against 1drop.decs it almost seems better to main deck it. On the play it's actually not bad (1/2 the time) and you can board it out game 2 (especially on the draw) as they panic to deal with it. You might lose g1 vs. aggro more but post-board this is probably one of the easier MUs.

Well think about it this way. Our opponent is going to have a game plan vs our maindeck of burning them out like lifegain and hexproof critters or removal to deal with our creatures out of his board but only out of his board. Our game one is really solid and it doesnt need that much help with such
an open metagame. If I was dead certain that I would be playing against all durdly midrange decks then I would like I do on paper. Also on the second point of maindecking eidolon. What do I cut for it? I cut different cards for eidolon to maximize his effectiveness in every matchup because he needs a very particular set up that varies from matchup to matchup. So if i have eidolon vs junk i need certain cards to make him very good but the same doesnt go for monsters. In my hand I have anti monsters tech facing junk seems bad or vice versa. Thats how it is. If the backup cards with eidolon in your hand dont matchup well enough against your opponent then eidolon just either does nothing or kills you. In game two you man mulligan hands with eidolon and the backup that you dont need but in game one you dont know what you are playing against so there is no way to tell what cards will be good to couple with it. It was my experience that if I didnt know what my opponent was playing and I had eidolon then he was
either my savior or my damnation. I hope I explained that well enough. There are articles written about this subject that I have taken well and used to great effectiveness with this decklist.

[BiddingMaster]

Eidolon is bad vs Monsters; it's less bad vs Jund Monsters because that's a substantially easier matchup.

Its not the most amazing thing since sliced bread yes but every time it eats a mortars and allows my yp to go unmolested feels really nice. It happens alot and I see a substantial amount of jund opposed to straight monsters. The reason eidolon is so good is because people fear the eidolon and do their best to remove it in every matchup and I am fine with having benevolent bodyguard that also deals 2 damage to my opponent. I really enjoy this matchup except when they drop xengos the god of revels. We can comfortabley race it unless they are making all of their topdecks lethal attackers in two turns.

[zemanjaski]

That reads as "the reason eidolon is so good is because my opponents are bad".

[BiddingMaster]

That reads as "the reason eidolon is so good is because my opponents are bad".

if the average monster players kill eidolon then shouldnt i use that information to my best advantage?

[zemanjaski]

Then you'll lose if you face someone competent. You should be able to beat bad opposition without relying on misplays.

[BiddingMaster]

i think the average modo or scg open player might fear the eidolon but if i were at a gp or larger event i would always put my opponent not fearing eidolon.

[zemanjaski]

Yeah I don't think the optimal line is usually to assume that your opponent is bad; that's a problematic mindset if you're making decisions in the dark.

[LP, of the Fires]

To be fair, part of competitive magic is assessing what "level" your opponent is playing on going exactly one level ahead of them.

Having said that, Eidolon is pretty terrible against monsters and if that should be a factor when it comes to building your deck.

There's a definite tension between making top 8 by beating lesser players and actually winning the tournament by beating competent ones.

Still, if you know your opponents going to snap kill eidolon or whatever it is you're discussing, it's worth not boarding it out. You should absolutely board different vs. different players using all the information available to you.

[zemanjaski]

You can definitely play the player but I'm just cautioning around taking the lessons from one player and then applying them broadly to a class of players.

[zemanjaski]

Anyway, playing a 5K tomorrow. Going to run Shota's list without any testing, should be fine I guess.

[LaZerBurn]

@ Z and LP - this dialogue is exactly what I needed to hear this morning, thanks guys

[LP, of the Fires]

You can definitely play the player but I'm just cautioning around taking the lessons from one player and then applying them broadly to a class of players.

Of Course.

Unless you play devotion red All you're opponents play stupidly forever.

[Guttler]

I'm going to be giving Peak Eruption some testing in the sideboard going forward. Rx Devotion has become popular at my LGS and I want to stomp it out.

I've been pretty disappointed with T/T. I tend to only board it in on the play vs Mono black and the Mirror. It's also a card that is great on turn 3, but is lackluster if shows up late.

My current board is:
[deck]4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
3 Mizzium Mortars
1 Repriasl
1 Fated Conflagration
1 Banishing Light
3 Peak Eruption
2 Wear//Tear[/deck]

I'm running the YP standard maindeck, but I opted for the 4 chains + 1 Mortars version instead of 3 chains +2 Seering Blood. The presence of Rx Devotion at my LGS makes me value MM a lot higher then I would then at an SCG open.

SBPs:
I find that I really like to play the control role and often go for the grindy burn games where I need creatures to win.

UWx Control
+ 4 Eidolon of
the Great Revel
+ 2 Wear//Tear
+ 1 Banishing Light

-4 Chained to the Rocks
-1 Mizzium Mortars
-2 Shock

Rx Devotion
+3 Mizzium Mortars
+1 Fated Conflagration
+1 Banishing Light
+3 Peak Eruption
[Maybe: +2 Wear//Tear?]

-4 Boros Charm
-4 Skullcrack
[Maybe: -2 Shock]

Mono Black Devotion (I feel bad having so few cards against this deck.)
+1 Reprisal
+1 Banishing Light

-1 Mizzium Mortars
-1 Shock

Bx Midrange (Blood Baron and Obzedat decks.)
+3 Mizzium Mortars
+1 Reprisal
+1 Fated Conflagration
+1 Banishing Light

-2 Lightning Strike
-4 Shock

G/R Monsters
+3 Mizzium Mortars
+1 Fated Conflagration
+1 Banishing Light
[Maybe: +1 Reprisal?] The inability to hit SBD is disappointing, but it does good things to Poly and GCR.

I don't think Peak Eruption is good here.

-4 Skullcrack
-1 or 2 Shock

Aggro
Play:
+3 Mizzium Mortars
+1 Fated Conflagration
+1 Banishing Light
+3 Eidolon of the Great Revel

-4 Skullcrack
-4 Boros Charm

Draw:
+3 Mizzium Mortars
n+1 Fated Conflagration
+1 Banishing Light

-4 Skullcrack
-1 Boros Charm

R/w Burn Mirror
With this one I always seem to board differently each game.
+4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
+3 Peak Eruption

-4 Chained to the Rocks
-1 Mizzium Mortars
-2 Young Pyromancer
There is a good case for leaving in 2 chains if you're on the draw. If you see them playing Black lands, suspect T/T and take out Chandra's Phoenix instead of YP to lower your curve just a little.

[zemanjaski]

Peak Eruption is just the most insane mirror hate card.

[magicdownunder]

If you draw more then 1 and hit it early or if they Mana/Colour strewed - otherwise its just a bad Lava Spike (esp. with recent brews just running 12 mountains).

[zemanjaski]

Keeping them off helix is a big game.

[Kaitscralt]

those whom I must protect

[magicdownunder]

I just think its narrower nowadays its not uncommon too see the first 2-3 lands being Scry Lands, Gates or Vaults - so beside the issues of not hitting them early you also have to worry about what lands your opp. play .

I rather use that slot for something I know will be good like extra removal for aggro/midrange or Keening vs Control.

[zemanjaski]

I think in Shota's list, I'd side out Shock and Skullcrack against monsters; you've got so many answers to their ramped threats and can manage the board so well I don't think you need to sweat the Elf as much as usual; more 4 point burn spells increases your topdeck quality substantially too; also it's nice with Reckoner.

[Kaitscralt]

Zem you should remind everyone you haven't played standard in 3 months so they know to take your current advice with a grain of salt

[zemanjaski]

1 month!

[zemanjaski]

It's not like I suddenly don't understand strategy.

[BrainsickHater]

@Rhyno

I would probably board FDS in against MB on the play, but not on the draw. I would board T/T or EotGR in on both the play and the draw. The latter cards just seem more flexible to me, especially Eidolon, and flexibility is something I value greatly in my SB.

[Valdarith]

As I said a few pages ago, I would not recommend siding out Skullcrack against Monsters with the majority of its pilots being on the Nylea's Disciple plan postboard.

[zemanjaski]

OK, Shock and Boros Charm then.

All monsters players are terrible anyway apparently.

[Valdarith]

OK, Shock and Boros Charm then.

All monsters players are terrible anyway apparently.

I am at least.

[NotARobot]

Well you dont absolutely NEED skullcrack postboard vs monsters. You can respond to Nylea's Disciple trigger by murdering stuff with lightning, and we should be keeping their board relatively clear anyways

[BrainsickHater]

Nylea's Dsiciple isn't that awful. The most I've had it trigger for against me is 4, which yes, is a card, but I've won many of the games I've seen Disciple on the other side of the table and I had no skullcrack in hand.

[Valdarith]

Nylea's Dsiciple isn't that awful. The most I've had it trigger for against me is 4, which yes, is a card, but I've won many of the games I've seen Disciple on the other side of the table and I had no skullcrack in hand.

Gotta love that effective mull to six.

[BrainsickHater]

It hurts, but it doesn't end the game. And that's even if they draw it. I think people get really scared of any lifegain, but some is beatable.

Sometimes the Philosophy of Fire isn't even the way we want to go during a game, so them gaining 4 life can sometimes just be irrelevant.