[Primer] PyroRed

[Keftenk]

Just messing around, any thoughts?

[deck]
Creatures
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
3 Young Pyromancer
2 Firefist Striker
4 Chandra's Phoenix
2 Stormbreath Dragon

Land
13 Mountain
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Sacred Foundry
2 Mutavault

Other Spells
2 Shock
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
2 Chained to the Rocks

Planeswalkers
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Sideboard
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Boros Charm
3 Skullcrack
1 Flames of the Firebrand
1 Assemble the Legion
[/deck]

[LaZerBurn]

I've tried something similar and found I needed more than 23 land for Stormbreath. Not saying it won't work, just found it tight myself, I ran 25 with 4 Vaults IIRC.

[vundo]

I watched a few aytor replays and he got to play mono black so many times.

First of all, congrats to MDU. It's a shame that there were problems. I don't know exactly what happened but I've seen the storm on twitter.

Secondly, I won an SCG IQ today piloting Heisenburn. It was a small event of 36 people and the competition, likewise, wasn't very high. There was also a PTQ today like half an hour away which I opted not to go to because I'm not confident in Theros Sealed.
Here is the list I used today"
[deck]Heisenburn[/deck] [deck]Sideboard[/deck]
This was a pretty small event but the meta was pretty reflective of an SCG Open. I went undefeated and I played versus:
R1: 2-1 Mono Black Devotion
R2: 2-0 G/r/b Devotion
R3: 2-1 RDW with FoM
R4: 2-1 Esper Control
R5: 2-0 G/r Devotion
R6: ID

T8: 2-0 Esper Control (super bad 3xObzedat 3xWhip MB list - how did this even happen..)
T4: 2-0 G/r Devotion (same player)
T2: 2-0 Mono Blue Devotion

Not the biggest result but I'm happy I got to queue for the invitational. I think I'm going to play Young Frankenstein haha. I'm using the name 'Heisenburn' and this SCGIQ was spliced into a GPT Albuquerque which was a funny coincidence.
Some thoughts I had throughout the tournament:
- Throughout all 8 rounds that I played, I only made 1 relevant YP$ token. YP$ was either immediately killed or I just tapped out for reckoners and phoenixes.
- I tested the
Boros list that MDU posted, copying 75/75 of aytor_92's list. I'm probably just not used to the subtle difference between that and Pyro lists but I absolutely hate FoM builds. I also have a tough time sideboarding with FoM lists when I'm playing a matchup where I don't want to cut 1-drops.
- I sided in 14 cards for G/x/x Devotion and 11 cards for Mono Blue Devotion. I also side out my FotF against G/x/x Devotion decks when I'm on the draw but use them both on the play so I can kill elf/satyr.
- I only got to use Last Breath once and it was versus RDW FoM. I haven't really tested it but I just wanted more outs to MoW. I had a gut feeling that there would be a ton of Mono Blue Devotion today and I was right. Luckily, most of them were in the X-1 bracket
- I got to play Burning Earth twice- one time it got Golgari Charm'd and DSphere'd the other. Obviously it wasn't that great today but I'm satisfied with them for
Conley's Junk, BRW, and less devotion focused Jund lists.
- I missed Boros Charm a bit but I had a few opponents who played around it because I would leave 2 up for Jet lol..
- I wasn't too worried about AoG because it sees very little play on paper.
- As I mentioned before, YP$ didn't seem to do that much. Any other bear would've been doombladed just as quickly. Overall, I enjoyed the 3 FFs - 3 YP split today.
- Going down to 2 Mutavault hurt my control matchup a little bit and I'll probably start using the 3rd again. The 3rd never really screwed me.


I also have Heisenburn built completely on MODO so I'll be able to grind a ton and practice for the Vegas Invitational. And an extra thanks to MDU for not showing me his super sekrit MOCS tech

[Keftenk]

I've tried something similar and found I needed more than 23 land for Stormbreath. Not saying it won't work, just found it tight myself, I ran 25 with 4 Vaults IIRC.

Hmm, I figured since I was able to cast Assemble safely-easily on 22 lands that 1 dragon = 22 lands. 2 dragon = 23 lands. and so on.
I haven't done any tests with this though, was just an idea since I want a higher probability at beating GW Aggro. Would just SBing in AoT be more beneficial?

Sometimes I think that's where I falter mostly in my MTG, SBing correctly...

[magicdownunder]

I've tried something similar and found I needed more than 23 land for Stormbreath. Not saying it won't work, just found it tight myself, I ran 25 with 4 Vaults IIRC.

2nd this, I also tried and fail.

I watched a few aytor replays and he got to play mono black so many times.

First of all, congrats to MDU. It's a shame that there were problems. I don't know exactly what happened but I've seen the storm on twitter.

Secondly, I won an SCG IQ today piloting Heisenburn. It was a small event of 36 people and the competition, likewise, wasn't very high. There was also a PTQ today like
half an hour away which I opted not to go to because I'm not confident in Theros Sealed.
Here is the list I used today"
[deck]Heisenburn[/deck] [deck]Sideboard[/deck]
This was a pretty small event but the meta was pretty reflective of an SCG Open. I went undefeated and I played versus:
R1: 2-1 Mono Black Devotion
R2: 2-0 G/r/b Devotion
R3: 2-1 RDW with FoM
R4: 2-1 Esper Control
R5: 2-0 G/r Devotion
R6: ID

T8: 2-0 Esper Control (super bad 3xObzedat 3xWhip MB list - how did this even
happen..)
T4: 2-0 G/r Devotion (same player)
T2: 2-0 Mono Blue Devotion

Not the biggest result but I'm happy I got to queue for the invitational. I think I'm going to play Young Frankenstein haha. I'm using the name 'Heisenburn' and this SCGIQ was spliced into a GPT Albuquerque which was a funny coincidence.
Some thoughts I had throughout the tournament:
- Throughout all 8 rounds that I played, I only made 1 relevant YP$ token. YP$ was either immediately killed or I just tapped out for reckoners and phoenixes.
- I tested the Boros list that MDU posted, copying 75/75 of aytor_92's list. I'm probably just not used to the subtle difference between that and Pyro lists but I absolutely hate FoM builds. I also have a tough time sideboarding with FoM lists when I'm playing a matchup where I don't want to cut 1-drops.
- I sided in 14 cards for G/x/x Devotion and 11 cards for Mono Blue Devotion. I also side out my FotF against G/x/x Devotion decks when I'm on the draw but use them both on the play
so I can kill elf/satyr.
- I only got to use Last Breath once and it was versus RDW FoM. I haven't really tested it but I just wanted more outs to MoW. I had a gut feeling that there would be a ton of Mono Blue Devotion today and I was right. Luckily, most of them were in the X-1 bracket
- I got to play Burning Earth twice- one time it got Golgari Charm'd and DSphere'd the other. Obviously it wasn't that great today but I'm satisfied with them for Conley's Junk, BRW, and less devotion focused Jund lists.
- I missed Boros Charm a bit but I had a few opponents who played around it because I would leave 2 up for Jet lol..
- I wasn't too worried about AoG because it sees very little play on paper.
- As I mentioned before, YP$ didn't seem to do that much. Any other bear would've been doombladed just as quickly. Overall, I enjoyed the 3 FFs - 3 YP split today.
- Going down to 2 Mutavault hurt my control matchup a
little bit and I'll probably start using the 3rd again. The 3rd never really screwed me.


I also have Heisenburn built completely on MODO so I'll be able to grind a ton and practice for the Vegas Invitational. And an extra thanks to MDU for not showing me his super sekrit MOCS tech

Grats on your result and that's not Heisenburn, that is my old list - what happen too your greedy 11 mountains, 3 vaults plan with 4/2 split between YP/FSS .

BTW we ended up playing similar list except for the super sekrit SB tech .

[Lightning_Dolt]

I only play on Cockatrice and IRL, so my meta is a little different than yours I suspect. Japanese players are tricky for me. They don't follow the meta at all really, and like to brew seemingly random decks that are actually quite good.

What are your thoughts on Hammer of Purphoros in the main deck? Sometimes it feels superfluous, but other times it just wins.

Lots of players during my timezone have Japanese names and run lists which 'were' not in the upper tier (lots of Big Boros) in regards to [card]Hammer of Purphoros[/
card] MD, I don't like it in traditional small RW - but its important to note beside me the only other Red list to hit top 32 was a semi-big-boros like (aka boros aggro) it wasn't this list but something liked it piloted by another 1900 grinder God_Like:

[deck]Creatures
4 Ash Zealot
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Fanatic of Mogis
4 Firefist Striker
4 Rakdos Cackler

Spells
4 Chained to the Rocks
4 Lightning Strike
2 Magma Jet
1 Hammer of Purphoros

Land
11 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Mutavault

Sideboard
4 Mizzium Mortars
3 Skullcrack
2 Last Breath
2 Burning Earth
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Chandra Pyromaster
1 Hammer of Purphoros[/deck]

I actually hate this list because its so extremely greedy, but aytor_92 has so many wins - that it can't just all be luck.

This is what I'm playing ATM:

[deck]Creatures (20)
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Land (22)
12 Mountain
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Sacred Foundry
2 Mutavault

Other Spells (16)
4 Shock
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Hammer of Purphoros

Planeswalkers (2)
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Sideboard (15)
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Skullcrack
2 Stormbreath Dragon
1 Mutavault
2 Boros Charm
[/deck]

Right now, the Hammers are the only cards I'm unsure of. The rest of the deck is pretty much how I want it. YP$ does work if left alone. It seems ok.

I need to ask, why do you want Hammer of Purphoros in this deck? What does Hammer of Purphoros help you beat? What is your meta (usually)?

That's within a few cards on the deck that's been doing
well at the SCGOs / GPs. I hate it too.

My meta is like, half Esper / U/W, and then half random shit (junk, G/W, Naya, GR monsters, Dega, other red decks). I just don't know what to put in those two flex slots.

I was playing around with hammer because I figure it's good vs Black Devo / UW/x Control.

Any suggestions for cards that matter VS G/x Midrange? That M/U seems to be my most difficult. Maybe the full set of Chained to the Rocks? Boros Charm? I'm not sure.

[LaZerBurn]

@ Keftnek - I can't really add anything to the S/B tech and match up strategy for G/W in the primer (props to Helios for updating and generally doing such a great job with this).

The land issue is one of those areas of MTG in which there is no definite answer. Hamfactorial's article http://diestoremoval.com/viewtopic.php?f=92&t=845 is the definitive last word on the issue mathematically BUT we (as in all of us, to greater and lesser degrees) are affected/influenced by our personal experience and our emotions (there is a term for this but I can't for the life of me recall it right now) so if you've had no problems running 22 land and Assemble then you'll quite reasonably adopt a stance that supports this strategy. In this specific case my personal experience was that I needed more land than 23 to run a Dragon but this doesn't mean that you shouldn't test it out for
yourself

[Keftenk]

Yea, thanks for the feedback. I'll prob mess around with it like I much did with InflateablePie's list.

[Helios]

Lazer- Thanks for the kind words, much appreciated. There will be many more updates as soon as my thesis is finished. Also, personal bias should only be considered in terms of playstyle- I'm more conservative and hate getting screwed, so I'll opt for an extra land to hedge. Some Pyro/Walter White lists are playing 22 and doing fine. That doesn't mean there isn't a "correct" number- the "well, I only play X lands, and I win all the games" argument is incorrect.

vundo- Good work mate!

JS- Hammer doesn't seem good in that list, especially as a two-of. Maybe -1 Hammer, +1 land?

[DerWille]

I've had the same experience with Young Pyromancer around here. Rather, at first my opponents didn't respect him, but after my deck went off a few times with him, he's killed on sight. Even if I play him on turn 4, I usually don't get more than a single token out of him. One thing I liked about the earlier versions of this deck was how it had ways of turning every single draw into a relevant threat that demanded an immediate answer. So I've thought about running this next week

[deck]PyroWhite[/deck]

The main board only has a small change, -1 Young Pyromancer for +1 Hammer of Purphoros.

I've found early on he's just a weak bear that gets killed instantly. I've noticed that hands where I start with an Ash Zealot as my turn 2 play are significantly stronger than ones where I have Young Pyromancer. Hell, even a turn 2 Magma Jet to fix my draws has been stronger. One idea that came to me is to remove Young Pyromancer entirely and throw in Rakdos Shred-Freak. I know he's weaker to G/x stuff but besides my buddy running Ghetto green, there's really no one else with that deck.

Most of my meta appears to be Esper Control, Mono Blue Devotion, Mono Black Devotion, RDW of various flavors, a couple Dega lists, and a bunch of
random deck that ranges from not very good to pretty damn powerful because I go to like 5 or 6 different stores depending on how much Magic I feel like playing. In most of those match ups, I feel like I can get a lot more value out of a 2/1 haste than a 2/1 token machine. Hell, I'm lucky if I can get more than 1 token out.

Along those lines, I don't know how I feel about Traitorous Instinct in the sideboard. It's definitely a useful card, but against mid range decks I already bring in a lot for the match up. Mizzium Mortars, Boros Reckoner, Assemble the Legion, Chained to the Rocks, it's like I don't have a lot of space to put in more stuff. I'd rather make another match up better. I'm terrified of Mono Blue, but I've been lucky enough to never go against it.

Cards I've thought about using: Burning Earth, [
card]Skullcrack[/card], Boros Charm, Peak Eruption, Stormbreath Dragon, Frostburn Weird, or [card]Warleader's Helix[/card]. I'm more inclined to have some anti-red cards in there (I keep losing to red lists).

[Helios]

Maybe -1 Mortars, +1 Reckoner? I think in every matchup you want Reckoner, you want the full set. It'll be better than the 4th Mortars at least.

Which red lists are you losing to? There are, uh, 1 or 2 different red decks

[magicdownunder]

@Johnny, your meta is really tough nut to crack.

You can't play 4x Chain MD if you know you will be facing control, hammer while good vs Control and Aggro - it is just bad vs Midrange so you don't need it.

Against Gx (I know this isn't what you want to hear) you need to try and get lucky, G1 - MD singleton Flames of the Firebrand and BtE into FSS hurts them quite badly - I also run a shaman as well.

G2+G3 with 4x Chains, 4x Boros Reckoner makes it very hard for them to push in damage (only issues is that it goes both ways) they will stall for Green devotion lifegain or trample lifelink auras, while you should be stalling for FoM (or dragon in your case).

So you need to squeeze damage through with Chandra's Phoenix and burns - till you hit your finisher, its a tough grindy fight but with skullcrack you should come out on top (unless they hit Garruk and you can't deal with him).

[DerWille]

Sorry, I forgot to mention that I only have 3 Reckoners. I can't quite afford the 4th at the moment.

The list that I lose to in particular is a homebrew haste and burn that seems to be something like an all in deck but isn't. I'm thinking that the list that looks something like this

[deck]Blazing Saddles[/deck]

However, it's a general play style thing. I haven't quite cracked the red match yet so I was thinking of dedicating more of my sideboard to it so I could make up for my ineptness in the match up. This deck is suppose to have a good match up against them, about 60%ish (right?), but I'm probably sitting more like 40-
45% with it. I can usually get 1 game but the second one is way harder than it should be.

[Lightning_Dolt]

@ Helios I feel 22 is the correct land count. I always seem to flood on 23, which I think is part of why I wanted to Hammers. Post board I can go up to 23 if bring Dragons in and hammers out.

@ MDU Do you mean Pyrewild Shaman? I'll try 1 FotFB and 1 PWS for a bit and see how it feels. I'm still not crazy about BTE / FFS, since I don't feel they are good if they aren't drawn in tandem. I like Ash Zealots first strike + more shock personally. I wonder if Madcap Skills is the answer I'm looking for?

[Guttler]

I've had the same experience with Young Pyromancer around here. Rather, at first my opponents didn't respect him, but after my deck went off a few times with him, he's killed on sight. Even if I play him on turn 4, I usually don't get more than a single token out of him. One thing I liked about the earlier versions of this deck was how it had ways of turning every single draw into a relevant threat that demanded an immediate answer. So I've thought about running this next week

[deck]PyroWhite[/deck]

The main board only has a small change, -1 Young Pyromancer for +1 Hammer of Purphoros.

I've found early on he's just a weak bear that gets killed instantly. I've noticed that hands where I start with an Ash Zealot as my turn 2 play are significantly stronger than ones where I have Young Pyromancer. Hell, even a turn 2 Magma Jet to fix my draws has been stronger. One idea that came to me is to remove Young Pyromancer entirely and throw in Rakdos Shred-Freak. I know he's weaker to G/x stuff but besides my buddy running Ghetto green, there's really
no one else with that deck.

Most of my meta appears to be Esper Control, Mono Blue Devotion, Mono Black Devotion, RDW of various flavors, a couple Dega lists, and a bunch of random deck that ranges from not very good to pretty damn powerful because I go to like 5 or 6 different stores depending on how much Magic I feel like playing. In most of those match ups, I feel like I can get a lot more value out of a 2/1 haste than a 2/1 token machine. Hell, I'm lucky if I can get more than 1 token out.

Along those lines, I don't know how I feel about Traitorous Instinct in the sideboard. It's definitely a useful card, but against mid range decks I already bring in a lot for the match up. Mizzium Mortars, Boros Reckoner, Assemble the Legion, Chained to the Rocks, it's like I don't have a lot of space to put in more stuff. I'd rather make another match
up better. I'm terrified of Mono Blue, but I've been lucky enough to never go against it.

Cards I've thought about using: Burning Earth, Skullcrack, Boros Charm, Peak Eruption, Stormbreath Dragon, Frostburn Weird, or [card]Warleader's Helix[/card]. I'm more inclined to have some anti-red cards in there (I keep losing to red lists).

Hello everyone, been following this primer for a few weeks and now I'm making my first post. Props to all the super red mages who make this site awesome.

@DerWille

Rakdos Shred-Freak seems like a great card in a vacuum, but I'd give some deep thought to the meta before maindecking it. Soldier of the Pantheon is the signature 1 drop in the W/r [card]Brave the Elements[/
card] deck. It's also not uncommon for Esper to sideboard in SotP as a way to give them more early game interaction. By running RSF you'll play games where your 1 drop Cackler and 2 Drop RSF can not attack profitably and are also lifegain spells for your opponent. Granted red decks do have burn to deal with SotP. While YP is strictly weaker as a creature it serves an important role as a source of card advantage in the deck.

Also, you mentioned having trouble in the RDW mirror. Have you read http://community.ist.utl.pt/viewtopic.php?f=108&t=1912 yet? I played 2 Monored decks at my most recent FNM and used Z's tactics to soundly beat both of them.

[magicdownunder]

@ Helios I feel 22 is the correct land count. I always seem to flood on 23, which I think is part of why I wanted to Hammers. Post board I can go up to 23 if bring Dragons in and hammers out.

@ MDU Do you mean Pyrewild Shaman? I'll try 1 FotFB and 1 PWS for a bit and see how it feels. I'm still not crazy about BTE / FFS, since I don't feel they are good if they aren't drawn in tandem. I like Ash Zealots first strike + more shock personally. I wonder if Madcap Skills is the answer I'm looking for?

Yeah Pyrewild Shaman, Madcap Skills is good vs Gu and GW
but its horrible vs Gr they have way too many "fight" abilities which lets them 2-4-1 you.

I've been happy grinding out G/x decks, since we have 6 terrors, Boros Reckoner and some really nice finishers - I have more issues with RW and MonoU. That said every now and then, they'll get in garruk and just win.

[DerWille]

@Guttler

Soldier of the Pantheon hasn't been on the radar in this area for some odd reason. I haven't seen a W/r list nor have I seen any U/W or Esper players side one in. This might change at some of the more competitive stores here (I took a break from Standard this week) because some of those guys spend waaay too much money on this game and literally play whatever is the "best" at the moment.

It's not easy to bench Young Pyromancer, the deck is named after him. However, the people I play against know about what that little guy can do. I've beaten them with the card several times. He's killed on sight. Several of my opponents have told me directly that they bring in more creature kill to make sure that he dies as soon as possible. Chandra is in this same boat too. So, in the best case scenario, Young Pyromancer
is amazing, but frequently, I don't even get to untap with him and barely get a single token. With Rakdos Shred-Freak I'd at least get to attack while dodging Doom Blade and Ultimate Price.

I'm not going to bench him just yet. I want to see if 1 main board hammer can pick up the slack.

I did read his article, I should reread it. I think this is going to be a match up that I'll need to play again and again until I develop a sense for it. I'm just trying to find a crutch to help me win until I do develop that sense.

[F.I.A]

I was talking about doing it in response to fight etc. I don't think you're going to save a creature often with +1 Toughness from burn (if the MJ for Cackler / Phoenix I guess) / blockers (your guy still dies probably, you kill theirs, but you 2 for 1 yourself) / fight (they fight X/4 VS anything in your deck, you use TS and they trade, but you're down a card). If you are making your guy bigger to get through hexproof plant, that's a 1/1 but a turn lost. Even with the scry, I don't think that's profitable enough.

Even if you are down by a card, you got rid of one of their fatties to save you the trouble of worrying about it in the following turns.

Killing a Caryatid early on worth a lot more than just a 1-1. You get rid of that
persistent blocker that is soaking up 2 damage every turn and delay the next turn polukranos (And sometimes longer if their 4th land takes longer to come).

If you live in MCL and you get a token, save the creature and get the game winning scry, I'm happy for you. That doesn't happen for me.

I also think you guys get a lot more value out of YP$ than I do, Japanese players respect it and kill it on sight.

I play modo, and by my experience, every time he is played, he is killed. You're not supposed to play him on turn 2 since you won't have the extra mana to get those 1/1 tokens. Cast him as late as turn 4, if you will, unless you're dealing with control and have nothing better to cast.

After light testing, I wonder if Rubble Belt Matka is maybe better? It grants toughness too. I know you can't use it as anti-domestication tech, but it could be relevant.

[
card]Rubblebelt Maaka[/card] is awful. Combat only is bad enough, since your opponent can just Last Breath that creature precombat phase. And his stat as a creature is nothing to talk about either.

Let me give you a few example why TS can be good.

Example 1

Against monoblack, you have a Rakdos Cackler and Firedrinker Satyr, and your opponent tap out with a Nightveil Specter. Blocking the satyr will make him trade with the specter (Not to mention all his removals can interact with it, unlike the cackler), so he will generally block the cackler instead. Not only your cackler survived (5/3), you get to fix your topdeck.

Example 2

Similar with Example 1, but with Gray Merchant of Aspodel. Again, your cackler can rush in, kill the
merchant to fight another day, much to your opponent's annoyance.

With burn spells like Magma Jet, you will still down by a creature. This is where the single 1 toughness from [card]Titan's Strength[/card] matters.

[Lightning_Dolt]

I was talking about doing it in response to fight etc. I don't think you're going to save a creature often with +1 Toughness from burn (if the MJ for Cackler / Phoenix I guess) / blockers (your guy still dies probably, you kill theirs, but you 2 for 1 yourself) / fight (they fight X/4 VS anything in your deck, you use TS and they trade, but you're down a card). If you are making your guy bigger to get through hexproof plant, that's a 1/1 but a turn lost. Even with the scry, I don't think that's profitable enough.

Even if you are down by a card, you got rid of one of
their fatties to save you the trouble of worrying about it in the following turns.

Killing a Caryatid early on worth a lot more than just a 1-1. You get rid of that persistent blocker that is soaking up 2 damage every turn and delay the next turn polukranos (And sometimes longer if their 4th land takes longer to come).

If you live in MCL and you get a token, save the creature and get the game winning scry, I'm happy for you. That doesn't happen for me.

I also think you guys get a lot more value out of YP$ than I do, Japanese players respect it and kill it on sight.

I play modo, and by my experience, every time he is played, he is killed. You're not supposed to play him on turn 2 since you won't have the extra mana to get those 1/1 tokens. Cast him as late as turn 4, if you will, unless you're dealing with control and have nothing better to cast.

After light testing, I wonder if Rubble Belt Matka is maybe
better? It grants toughness too. I know you can't use it as anti-domestication tech, but it could be relevant.

Rubblebelt Maaka is awful. Combat only is bad enough, since your opponent can just Last Breath that creature precombat phase. And his stat as a creature is nothing to talk about either.

Let me give you a few example why TS can be good.

Example 1

Against monoblack, you have a Rakdos Cackler and Firedrinker Satyr, and your opponent tap out with a Nightveil Specter. Blocking the satyr will make him trade with the specter (Not to mention all his removals can interact with it, unlike the cackler), so he will generally block the cackler instead. Not only your cackler survived (5/3), you get to fix your topdeck.

[u:
3qqgtbgw]Example 2[/u]

Similar with Example 1, but with Gray Merchant of Aspodel. Again, your cackler can rush in, kill the merchant to fight another day, much to your opponent's annoyance.

With burn spells like Magma Jet, you will still down by a creature. This is where the single 1 toughness from [card]Titan's Strength[/card] matters.

I wonder if Boros Charm might be better?

[LaZerBurn]

Lazer- Also, personal bias should only be considered in terms of playstyle- I'm more conservative and hate getting screwed, so I'll opt for an extra land to hedge. Some Pyro/Walter White lists are playing 22 and doing fine. That doesn't mean there isn't a "correct" number- the "well, I only play X lands, and I win all the games" argument is incorrect.

I agree, not sure if that was clear in my post

[F.I.A]

I wonder if Boros Charm might be better?

- It costs more, so you cannot do other thing after using it on turn 2.
- It keeps the fought creatures alive, but doesn't eliminate the problem at hand (Usually a threat bigger and meaner than your creatures)
- It doesn't scry
- You cannot play it in a monored deck

Now Boros Charm is a great card, but this is like comparing apples with oranges.

[Lightning_Dolt]

I wonder if Boros Charm might be better?

- It costs more, so you cannot do other thing after using it on turn 2.
- It keeps the fought creatures alive, but doesn't eliminate the problem at hand (Usually a threat bigger and meaner than your creatures)
- It doesn't scry
- You cannot play it in a monored deck

Now Boros Charm is a great card, but this is like comparing apples with oranges.

I'm playing RW. It has other applications, like going to the dome or wrath protection. The double strike mode can still tear through
hexproof plants though. I don't know. Just found [card]Titan's Strength[/card] to be very awkward.

[windstrider]

Congratulations on the results, MDU.

[F.I.A]

I'm playing RW. It has other applications, like going to the dome or wrath protection. The double strike mode can still tear through hexproof plants though. I don't know. Just found [card]Titan's Strength[/card] to be very awkward.

You're saying as if you won't be able to connect 3 damage to the dome with [card]Titan's Strength[/card] along with a creature.

As I said, it's a card that you don't want in multiple, but it has served me well as 2-ofs or 3-ofs (Having only 3 Shock here).

At best, it saves you creature, kills something and fixes your topdeck. At worst, you scry end of turn (Use it on an opponent's creature to prevent disruption) for a card you
really need to handle the situation.

[Lightning_Dolt]

I'm playing RW. It has other applications, like going to the dome or wrath protection. The double strike mode can still tear through hexproof plants though. I don't know. Just found [card]Titan's Strength[/card] to be very awkward.

You're saying as if you won't be able to connect 3 damage to the dome with [card]Titan's Strength[/card] along with a creature.

As I said, it's a card that you don't want in multiple, but it has served me well as 2-ofs or 3-ofs (Having only 3 Shock here).

At
best, it saves you creature, kills something and fixes your topdeck. At worst, you scry end of turn (Use it on an opponent's creature to prevent disruption) for a card you really need to handle the situation.

I'll give it a try.

[F.I.A]

Anyway, current 75
[deck]18 Mountain
4 Mutavault

4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix

2 Chandra, Best Card in Standard

3 Shock
3 Titan's Strength
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
2 Flames of the Firebrand

Sideboard
1 Shock
2 Hammer of Purphoros
4 Mizzium Mortars
3 Skullcrack
2 Act of Treason
1 Flames of the Firebrand
2 Rod of Ruin[/deck]

Sideboard strategy
MBC

---

OUT: 4 Magma Jet 2 Flames of the Firebrand 3 Shock
IN: 4 Mizzium Mortars 2 Act of Reason 3 Skullcrack

Reasoning
- Magma Jet is out because aside from Pack Rat, it cannot kill anything without trading with one of our creatures. Titan's Strength stays because it can kill specter or merchant.
- MBC is about quality instead of quantity, so we can settle
with cheaper burn like Mortars. The 1 mana cost difference matters... a lot.
- Shock is out just as Magma Jet.
- Mizzium Mortars can hit either Nightveil Specter or Gray Merchant of Asphodel. While it's bad idea to kill the latter with a whip around, you'd rather stop the devotion before it gets out of hand.
- Act of Treason is in to punish those who play with a glutton of a demon.
- Skullcrack for the whip and merchant shenanigans.

Preferred hand to keep:
- Those with one or two of those 1-drops. Some mutavaults are great as well.

Mono Red Devotion or Big Boros

---

OUT: 4 Rakdos Cackler 4 Firedrinker Satyr
IN: 4 Mizzium Mortars 1 Shock 1 Flames of the Firebrand 2 Hammer of Purphoros

Reasoning
- 1-drops just won't do against deck running Boros Reckoner
- Full burn package to maximize the removal
potential. Mortars should be kept for the dragons (If any is sighted during Game 1).
- Hammer for late game bashing.

Preferred hand to keep:
- A hand with a mix of removals and creatures is good to keep.

Mono Blue Devotion

---

OUT: 4 Rakdos Cackler 4 Firedrinker Satyr
IN: 4 Mizzium Mortars 1 Shock 1 Flames of the Firebrand 2 Rod of Ruin

Reasoning
- Grounded 1-drops are just bad against blue
- Full burn package to maximize the removal potential. Mortars should be kept for Frostburn Weird, or saved for overload.
- Rod of Ruin (No, seriously) is for pinging off that annoying MoW (It works the last time I play it).

Preferred hand to keep:
- A hand with as many cheap removals as possible. Creatures are useless when they can be tidebound. Prioritize on using removals before playing that Ashley.

Mono Green Devotion[/u:
27lmhm6s]

---

OUT: 4 Rakdos Cackler 4 Firedrinker Satyr
IN: 4 Mizzium Mortars 1 Shock 1 Flames of the Firebrand 2 Act of Treason

Reasoning
- 1-drops just cannot compare to the sheer size this deck can vomit out.
- Full burn package to maximize the removal potential. Mortars should be kept as long as possible for overload.
- Act of Treason to make one of their creatures kill them.

Preferred hand to keep:
- You want a hand with cheap removals for any mana dorks that are not named Sylvan Caryatid. Do not forget to remove that second Emmy they land in that turn with Nykthos around. You won't want to stare at 2 Emmys and Polukranos as early as turn 3. Keep scrying for phoenix, since they are your trump against them.

Esper or just any control

---

OUT: 3 Shock 2 Flames of the Firebrand 2 Magma Jet
IN: 3 Skullcrack 2 Hammer of
Purphoros 2 Mizzium Mortars

Reasoning
- The shock won't kill anything.
- Flames of the Firebrand is out because you won't be splitting the damage as often.
- 2 Magma Jet for 2 Mortars in case of Vizkopa vampire or specter. They can also clear Elspeth token in a hurry.
- Skullcrack is for going "Sphinx this!"
- Hammer is another threat they need to answer.

Preferred hand to keep:
- Similar to MBC, a few 1-drops do wonder. Just be careful of Detention Sphere when you have duplicates. Mutavaults are all-stars here.

Boros Burn

---

OUT: 4 Firedrinker Satyr 3 Titan's Strength
IN: 1 Flames of the Firebrand 1 Shock 3 Skullcrack 2 Hammer of Purphoros

Explanation
A rather curious variant I have seen playing in 2-mans queue. It's a deck that survives by burning everything and bringing in heal ([card]Spark Trooper[/card:
27lmhm6s] and [card]Warleader's Helix[/card]) against aggro

Reasoning
- Against deck like these, the satyrs are a liability with how flammable they are. The cackler stays because you need something to distract them from doming you.
- You need all the instant removals you can get. An instant pump does nothing against a suicidal healing ball lightning
- Your creatures will be dying left and right, so it's best to make your lands do the remaining job. Hammer time!

Preferred hand to keep:
- Hand with cheap creatures and removals are ideal keep.

[dpaine88]

Had a small GPT at my LGS today , but all good players with Tier 1 decks.

I went 3-1 and then we split top4. Easy $50 cash.

Took Zem's latest list which I have been playing the past month or so.

Honestly, the deck ran like crap a lot. I kept 1 single 7-card hand through the entire event. If I had $1 for every 1 or 0 land hand, I'd be rich.

That said, thats just how good this deck is. Even when it runs like shit, it is so flexible and often untested against which lets it eek out games other red decks can't.

2-0 Win vs Junk Midrange
1-0(Game loss) Win vs BR Aggro
2-1 Win vs Mono Black- Loss was Removal into 3x Demon and Whip
2-1 Loss vs G/R Monsters/Devotion

Split cash but played it out for a store credit bonus if you won other GPT that day.

I got rematch vs Mono Black and mulled to abysmal 5 card hands both games. Lost promptly.

[FullofGravy]

Weird day went 4-3 pretty tired for full rundown but will post results (R/W - 65players)

W vs. R/G Devotion 2-0
L vs. Esper Control 2-1 (missed very probable on board win in game 3)
W vs. Grixis 2-0
W vs. Devotion Red 2-1
W vs. 73 card mirror match 2-0
L vs. Esper Control 2-0
L vs. U/W Control 2-1 (vs. friend, was battling for 8th place)

Kept on getting 2:1 ratios of lands to spells vs. control matchups even when scrying stuff away, just a case of the runbads I guess.
L vs.

[Lightning_Dolt]

I've tried something similar and found I needed more than 23 land for Stormbreath. Not saying it won't work, just found it tight myself, I ran 25 with 4 Vaults IIRC.

Fwiw, a lot of us ran 23 land and two thundermaws for all of RTR standard.

[zemanjaski]

Just some observations:
1. welcome back dpaine, looking forward to more input from you and your month of testing!
2. I'm not really a fan of 'tech' cards like Titan's Strength or Pyrewild; but I do respect the random blowouts (as I do run a singleton Flames maindeck, but that has a more broad application); I can't imagine running three Titan Strength! So clunky in multiples.
3. I never found two 5-drops on 23 land to work for me; though it's borderline ok on numbers as per Ham's article. I'm pretty conservative with my deck building, preferring to have consistency and to leverage my (hopefully better) technical skill. The two 5s on 23 land is a good way to up your win rate if your not as comfortable sifting through a lot of similar lines to find the best one though - Stormbreath is a real beating.
4. I'm getting really frustrated not being able to play ~ two more days if nothing goes wrong!

[dauntless268]

Here's what I'm currently running:

[deck]
Creatures
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
3 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix
1 Pyrewild Shaman


Land
12 Mountain
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Sacred Foundry
3 Mutavault

Instants/Sorceries
3 Shock
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet

Enchantments
4 Chained to the Rocks

Planeswalkers
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Sideboard
3 Mizzium Mortars
3 Skullcrack
2 Boros Charm
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Hammer of Porphorous
2 Titan's Strength
1 Wear/Tear
1 Act of Treason
1 Young Pyromancer
[/deck]

The 4 Chained to the Rocks MB are a nod to the midrange matchups. I feel like this deck is good against control I can still win even with 1 or 2 of them rotting in my hand. Regarding my meta: - I only play
MODO, mostly 8 man's (sometimes DEs, although I hate waiting for these DE's to move to next round ), Rating around 1750 - 1770 atm

Against MonoU Devotion, the deck's horror matchup, I'm currently thinking it may be worthwhile siding out the 2 Chandra, 1 Chandra's Phoenix and 3 lands (!), side in 3 Mortars + 2 Titan's Strength + Pyromancer => making the curve lower and wielding enough removal to keep them off devotion. Haven't done enought testing on that idea yet. If it's not good, might have to jump on the Boros Reckoner Bandwagon as pretty much everyone else here

Thoughts?

[zemanjaski]

Four Chained maindeck is too many. Would need to see testing on the rest.

[magicdownunder]

Anyway, current 75
[deck]18 Mountain
4 Mutavault

4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix

2 Chandra, Best Card in Standard

3 Shock
3 Titan's Strength
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
2 Flames of the Firebrand

Sideboard
1 Shock
2 Hammer of Purphoros
4 Mizzium Mortars
3 Skullcrack
2 Act of Treason
1 Flames of the Firebrand
2 Rod of Ruin[/deck]

Sideboard strategy
MBC

---

OUT: 4 Magma Jet 2 Flames of the Firebrand 3 Shock
IN: 4 Mizzium Mortars 2 Act of Reason 3 Skullcrack

Reasoning
- Magma Jet is out because aside from Pack Rat, it cannot kill anything without trading
with one of our creatures. Titan's Strength stays because it can kill specter or merchant.
- MBC is about quality instead of quantity, so we can settle with cheaper burn like Mortars. The 1 mana cost difference matters... a lot.
- Shock is out just as Magma Jet.
- Mizzium Mortars can hit either Nightveil Specter or Gray Merchant of Asphodel. While it's bad idea to kill the latter with a whip around, you'd rather stop the devotion before it gets out of hand.
- Act of Treason is in to punish those who play with a glutton of a demon.
- Skullcrack for the whip and merchant shenanigans.

Preferred hand to keep:
- Those with one or two of those 1-drops. Some mutavaults are great as well.

Mono Red Devotion or Big Boros

---

OUT: 4 Rakdos Cackler 4 Firedrinker Satyr
IN: 4 Mizzium Mortars 1 Shock 1 Flames of the Firebrand 2 Hammer of Purphoros

Reasoning[/u:
1bs29tb8]
- 1-drops just won't do against deck running Boros Reckoner
- Full burn package to maximize the removal potential. Mortars should be kept for the dragons (If any is sighted during Game 1).
- Hammer for late game bashing.

Preferred hand to keep:
- A hand with a mix of removals and creatures is good to keep.

Mono Blue Devotion

---

OUT: 4 Rakdos Cackler 4 Firedrinker Satyr
IN: 4 Mizzium Mortars 1 Shock 1 Flames of the Firebrand 2 Rod of Ruin

Reasoning
- Grounded 1-drops are just bad against blue
- Full burn package to maximize the removal potential. Mortars should be kept for Frostburn Weird, or saved for overload.
- Rod of Ruin (No, seriously) is for pinging off that annoying MoW (It works the last time I play it).

Preferred hand to keep:
- A hand with as many cheap removals as possible. Creatures are
useless when they can be tidebound. Prioritize on using removals before playing that Ashley.

Mono Green Devotion

---

OUT: 4 Rakdos Cackler 4 Firedrinker Satyr
IN: 4 Mizzium Mortars 1 Shock 1 Flames of the Firebrand 2 Act of Treason

Reasoning
- 1-drops just cannot compare to the sheer size this deck can vomit out.
- Full burn package to maximize the removal potential. Mortars should be kept as long as possible for overload.
- Act of Treason to make one of their creatures kill them.

Preferred hand to keep:
- You want a hand with cheap removals for any mana dorks that are not named Sylvan Caryatid. Do not forget to remove that second Emmy they land in that turn with Nykthos around. You won't want to stare at 2 Emmys and Polukranos as early as turn 3. Keep scrying for phoenix, since they are your trump against them.

[u:
1bs29tb8]Esper or just any control

---

OUT: 3 Shock 2 Flames of the Firebrand 2 Magma Jet
IN: 3 Skullcrack 2 Hammer of Purphoros 2 Mizzium Mortars

Reasoning
- The shock won't kill anything.
- Flames of the Firebrand is out because you won't be splitting the damage as often.
- 2 Magma Jet for 2 Mortars in case of Vizkopa vampire or specter. They can also clear Elspeth token in a hurry.
- Skullcrack is for going "Sphinx this!"
- Hammer is another threat they need to answer.

Preferred hand to keep:
- Similar to MBC, a few 1-drops do wonder. Just be careful of Detention Sphere when you have duplicates. Mutavaults are all-stars here.

Boros Burn

---

OUT: 4 Firedrinker Satyr 3 Titan's Strength
IN: 1 Flames of the Firebrand 1 Shock 3 Skullcrack 2 Hammer of Purphoros

Explanation
A rather curious variant I
have seen playing in 2-mans queue. It's a deck that survives by burning everything and bringing in heal (Spark Trooper and [card]Warleader's Helix[/card]) against aggro

Reasoning
- Against deck like these, the satyrs are a liability with how flammable they are. The cackler stays because you need something to distract them from doming you.
- You need all the instant removals you can get. An instant pump does nothing against a suicidal healing ball lightning
- Your creatures will be dying left and right, so it's best to make your lands do the remaining job. Hammer time!

Preferred hand to keep:
- Hand with cheap creatures and removals are ideal keep.

I love it when people include the thought process in side-boarding.

Some notes:
1) You don't want 3x [card]Titan's Strength[/card] MD, your meta would require to have primarily Gx and MonoU to get
value from it, otherwise when AoG or WoG comes down and your back on top-deck mode you'll be in a very bad top-deck position. If you are going run them 1/1-2 split MD/SB at most.

2) 4x Mortars is too much against MBC, I'll recommend keeping 2x Flames of the Firebrand and going 2x Mortars - I had a number of games against MBD where the 3 dmg to dome is critical or when they have two Pack Rats in play...

3) Big R/RW, not sure you want [card]Titan's Strength[/card] here - they pack 4x AoG and heaps of spot removal - so top-deck mode is quite common, I actually like Rakdos Cackler in this MU because Big R/RW has such a strong late game, I usually don't want them to hit that point, that said I'm running the version with chains for Mr. Rec.

4) Is AoT really helping you against Gx? I feel like it read pay three and kill a manadork.

Lastly, I want to say thanks for recommending Rod of Ruin all those pages ago - I'm sorry I dismissed it then. (I'
ve been testing it since last week and had the pleasure of watching one of my Opp. concede and flash me a hand with two MoW.)

Just some observations:
1. welcome back dpaine, looking forward to more input from you and your month of testing!
2. I'm not really a fan of 'tech' cards like Titan's Strength or Pyrewild; but I do respect the random blowouts (as I do run a singleton Flames maindeck, but that has a more broad application); I can't imagine running three Titan Strength! So clunky in multiples.
3. I never found two 5-drops on 23 land to work for me; though it's borderline ok on numbers as per Ham's article. I'm pretty conservative with my deck building, preferring to have consistency and to leverage my (hopefully better) technical skill. The two 5s on 23 land is a good way to up your win rate if your not as comfortable sifting
through a lot of similar lines to find the best one though - Stormbreath is a real beating.
4. I'm getting really frustrated not being able to play ~ two more days if nothing goes wrong!

I agree on all points but I think once you experience the current DE meta you may reconsider Titan's Strength or Pyrewild, but I do agree three is too much.

[zemanjaski]

So was Rod of Ruin the spicy tech?? I must know! ^____^

[magicdownunder]

So was Rod of Ruin the spicy tech?? I must know! ^____^

Its the real deal, Pedros and myself have been testing it against MonoU decks for a week now.

It just has two issues:
1) its a huge mana investment you never want to see more then 1 in a single games (So its just a 1x in my list)
2) It only deals 1 damage, so you'll still be killed by Gods, Walls and Specters (again don't run more then 1x)
3) Did I mention its a huge mana investment???? - not only do you only want to see one in each game, you don't want to see it right way either.

[dpaine88]

Ah yes.

Since the last 5k I did with R/W Dragons, there hasn't been any big events at all. That was like a month ago.

Since then I got onto Pyro Red, loved it, foiled the fuck out of it and have been kicking ass and taking names.

Found a new LGS with much better payout and having been going 4-1 or 5-0 every week.

Finally had something pop other than FNM and took my chances.


Been REALLY loving this deck, getting to know its in's and out's etc.


Its extremely rare where I lose and feel like I got crushed, it almost always comes down to the last few life totals for both of us.

Only deck that gives me trouble is G/R monsters and decks that get double Reckoner.

[Pedros]

Today was a catastrophy. After learning all sunday I played a little bit and went 2-6. Flood, screw, muligans to 5. Lost to mono red, big boros, mono b, gw, bg and white weenie (and a lot of those decks are very favorable)

[dpaine88]

Oh and amazingly, somehow, someway, I have NEVER played against Mono Blue...

[Lightning_Dolt]

So was Rod of Ruin the spicy tech?? I must know! ^____^

Its the real deal, Pedros and myself have been testing it against MonoU decks for a week now.

It just has two issues:
1) its a huge mana investment you never want to see more then 1 in a single games (So its just a 1x in my list)
2) It only deals 1 damage, so you'll still be killed by Gods, Walls and Specters (again don't run more then 1x)
3) Did I mention its a huge mana investment???? - not only do you only want to see one in each game, you don't want to see it right way either.

The mana
investment troubles me. Is it really better than Last Breath?

[magicdownunder]

So was Rod of Ruin the spicy tech?? I must know! ^____^

Its the real deal, Pedros and myself have been testing it against MonoU decks for a week now.

It just has two issues:
1) its a huge mana investment you never want to see more then 1 in a single games (So its just a 1x in my list)
2) It only deals 1 damage, so you'll still be killed by Gods, Walls and Specters (again don't run more then 1x)
3)
Did I mention its a huge mana investment???? - not only do you only want to see one in each game, you don't want to see it right way either.

The mana investment troubles me. Is it really better than Last Breath?

In FoM variant Last Breath is better because you make up the damage easier, in small R/RW 4 damage can = 1-2 turns.

Its also important to respect MonoU CA engine, its not luck that they hit 2-3 MoW every game you need to be able to deal with him when he comes... and he will come.