[Primer] RDW

[Sasky]

Fuck off Alex.

[Alex]

Yeah cos badass Disney prince alex was going "stop posting decklists!"

They should have never given me power.

[Sasky]

It's the original post now that Alex moved it.

Dammit, Sasky. You're lucky you're cool.

I love you too bro.

[Sasky]

Yeah cos badass Disney prince alex was going "stop posting decklists!"

They should have never given me power.

My butt feels unsafe.

[Sasky]

Ok I'll stop posting now.

[zemanjaski]

@ Sasky.

Hey redbro. In the main there have been some lists running -1 Chandra, -1 Hammer, -2 Flames, +4 Firefist. This helps with devotion red and GW. So you could try that.

Otherwise you only need a single Loyalist, so add anotger card of your choosing to the board (eg: if your on Strikers maindeck, go with two Hammer in the board).

You could go to 2 Act and 2 Mortars for some Peak Eruption if you like that effect.

My only other thought is that if you're expecting a lot of Devotion Red, you'll want some sideboard technology for it specifically as the matchup is probably 45-55; everything else is 55-45 or way better (AIR and Esper are closer to 70-30).

[DerWille]

Zman, any opinions on the draft list of the Pyromacner deck with a black splash?

[Alex]

I don't know about James, but my first impression was "You took all of the cards that made Nuwen's deck unique out of the deck!"

Mogis's Marauder was a really insane card that I thought was good enough to carry the deck on its own. Was I wrong about that?

[zemanjaski]

Needs Tymaret. He's insane with YP, generates a lot of CA by himself, makes your Acts out of the board way better etc.

I actually built the RB version first but I just couldn't get the right spell density.

[DerWille]

@Alex - I saw Nuwen's deck as a black aggro deck with a splash of red. I was aiming to keep it a red aggro deck with a splash of black to shore up a few weak match ups while keeping the VCA engine of Zman's list and throw a solid curve topper creature which mono-red is lacking at the moment.

@Zman - Murder King dude? That's actually not a bad idea. Murder King over Exava?

[zemanjaski]

I dunno, maybe. You want at least 1. You can do some very cool tricks with him, and he's got some powerful synergies. It's another CA engine anyway.

[Alex]

Mogis's Marauder seemed a lot better than Hellrider was, and that's saying something. I wouldn't dismiss the idea of a black deck splashing red.

Also replacing Exava is not a good idea. Just cut something else, Exava beats basically every relevant creature in the format in combat.

[photodyer]

I can definitely see YP/Tymaret/threaten plan if DD or 5-drop+ decks gain a foothold, but more of a build-around obviously. Nuwen's deck has a very specific focus on getting the other guy dead and doesn't want to be bothered with anything that breaks its rhythm.

[Sasky]

@ Sasky.

Hey redbro. In the main there have been some lists running -1 Chandra, -1 Hammer, -2 Flames, +4 Firefist. This helps with devotion red and GW. So you could try that.

Otherwise you only need a single Loyalist, so add anotger card of your choosing to the board (eg: if your on Strikers maindeck, go with two Hammer in the board).

You could go to 2 Act and 2 Mortars for some Peak Eruption if you like that effect.

My only other thought is that if you're expecting a lot of Devotion Red, you'll want some sideboard technology for it specifically as the matchup is probably 45-55; everything else is 55-45 or way better (AIR and Esper are closer to 70-30).

Thanks! So it looks like this for tonight:

[deck]Creatures:24
4 Firedrinker
Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Firefist Striker
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Spells:14
4 Shock
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Lands:22
19 Mountain
3 Mutavault

Sideboard:15
1 Mutavault
1 Legion Loyalist
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Act of Treason
2 Flames of the Firebrand
2 Hammer of Purphoros
2 Peak Eruption[/deck]

[NerdBoyWonder]

[deck]Creatures 24
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Ash Zealot
4 Frostburn Weird
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Fanatic of Mogis

Instants/Sorceries 8
4x Lightning Strike
4x Magma Jet

Enchantments/Artifacts/Planeswalkers 5
3 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Hammer of Purphoros

Lands 23
22 Mountain
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx[/deck]

Tossed this together because I wanted a deck that used all the red cards I wanted to play with. Got most of them in there. Originally had Reckoner in place of Phoenix. If midrange becomes an issue then he's mainboarded. Went a few rounds against Esper control and it appears to be in favor. Definitely needs more testing.

All the major red cards showed their worth in my testing. Frostburn and Firedrinker are ridiculous. Fanatic can be a beast. It was turn 6 and +0 into a Fanatic with good ol Ashley on board. Burned opponent for 5 then swung with Zealot leaving him at 4. Next turn
Chandra +1 and Lightning Strike.

Only thing I wish I could do is play Young Pyromancer but have to build a different deck entirely for him. Young P-Money and Murder King look pretty good together.

[zemanjaski]

"Young P-Money"

Bravo

[Lightning_Dolt]

I've been thinking a lot about Nykthos in this deck. Being able to dump your mana into Purphorous on T5 for quasi- overrun could be sexy. Also overloading Mizzium Mortars on T4 seems good. Wish we could fit dragons in there and make em monstrous, but that is awkward with Hammer.

[Helios]

@Khaos: That looks pretty sweet. May sleeve it up for tomorrow.

Tested with the Pyrored standard build tonight. Still pre-SB games, but none the less we get good game 1 data.

Devotion Red: I honestly feel like with solid play and a decent hand you can make this better than 45-55. I don't think they have an advantage over you; you just have to understand that their mana symbol count is your burn range, and aggressively trade until you land some CA engine. Phoenix is an absolute champ here. Re: SB I suggested Seismic Stomp as a 2-of to "deal" with Reckoner. My reasoning is in the main thread, too lazy to copypasta here. Played roughly 7 games, they all felt find. I won 3 of them @3 life or less because of really tight play. (Like shocking my elemental token after blocking reckoner with it to stop from dying, then getting another token and dealing the 1 damage I needed that he hadn't accounted for)

Green
Stompy: Learned how to play this match-up better. I know no one else is concerned about this, but it is my main testing partner's pet deck and is honestly really strong. Can't give deats, but burning guys is pretty crucial. YP$ does work here, with the Shock-and-block trick among other things.

Esper: Lol, Esper. That is all.

[zemanjaski]

I think my esper win rate is around 85%. That's games. Match is 100%. Deck is terrible.

[Helios]

One of my buddies who normally plays red decided to actually "invest" in standard (read: play esper because it is expensive).

I've made him regret it every game.

Penny for your thoughts on Seismic Stomp?

[zemanjaski]

Yeah I like the technology. Broader application than Loyalist for what that deck needs.

[NerdBoyWonder]

I don't know about James, but my first impression was "You took all of the cards that made Nuwen's deck unique out of the deck!"

Mogis's Marauder was a really insane card that I thought was good enough to carry the deck on its own. Was I wrong about that?

From my limited testing of Nuwen's Black aggro deck Marauder is "teh nutz". The card makes the deck. Only if we could have had Marauder and Hellrider in the same standard...

On another note YP$ & Murder King deck with heavy spell support and Chandra's Phoenix might be building blocks for a deck?

[Platypus]

Also, deck names?

Ideas?

Showing our devotion to Red?

[Sasky]

Brothers of Fire

[F.I.A]

Brothers of Fire

Oh, I love that card. Even though it sucks by today's standard. There's Granger Guildmage too.

[Yarpus]

I actually think we should drop Mizzium Mortars and go into town with Seismic Stomp. It helps against Reckoner and Elspeth.

[Lightning_Dolt]

I actually think we should drop Mizzium Mortars and go into town with Seismic Stomp. It helps against Reckoner and Elspeth.

I'm thinking of main decking Mortars as a mana sink.

[zemanjaski]

It's not *really* a mana sink but it's probably well positioned.

[Yarpus]

I feel like Chandra/Reckoner are our biggest problems at the moment. And generally 5/5's.

[DarthStabber]

So I have had some good results testing with rakdos shred-freak as "ash zealot 5-8", and I wondered if any one else has done anything with it? For the record I am specifically avoiding BTE for reasons of consistency, thus the double hybrid cost is not disadvantageous.

[LP, of the Fires]

19 Mountain
3 Mutavault

3 Chandra, Pyromaster
4 Magma Jet
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Shock
4 Ash Zealot
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Lightning Strike
2 Goblin Shortcutter
1 Hammer of Purphoros

3 Mizzium Mortars
3 Act of Treason
1 Mutavault
1 Hammer of Purphoros
3 Burning Earth
3 Boros Reckoner
1 Barrage of Expendables

Yes, that's a barrage of expendables in the sideboard. I think it has a lot of broad applications in various matchups. Against control, it turns off all of their removal except away and means you can charm locked into 1 drops. In the agro mirrors, it can turn your creatures into mini-reckoners when they have x/1s making their removal bad and against midrange decks you just get incremental value out of chump blocking.

Where the synergy really shows is with pyro tokens and Chandra's phoenix. I really want to kill someone by sacking a phoenix, returning it with
Chandra's plus one, replaying it and killing them.

The only reason it's in my board is because I don't know what to cut from the main for it as I really like the idea of goblin shortcutter as our anti-reckoner tech. I'll probably just switch it with a Chandra, test, and then see if it's just terrible.

[DarthStabber]

Why not firefist striker as anti-reckoner tech? Striker falters something every turn, as opposed to once.

[Khaospawn]

Murder King dude?

I've actually taken to calling him "The Burger King," cuz, well, look at him. He looks like that creepy fucker waiting outside your window with a BK croissant or something.

[dpaine88]

After some tinkering, I have this list:

[deck]

Creatures 24
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Ash Zealot
3 Frostburn Weird
3 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Boros Reckoner
3 Fantic of Mogis

Good Stuff 3
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Hammer of Purphoros

Burn 11
3 Shock
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Strike

Land 22
1 Mutavault
21 Mountain
[/deck]

Dat Weird...so fucking good.

First, I am fuckin pumped about this deck. Lets get this thing tweaked for States this Saturday!

Second, I REALLY think you want that 2nd Mutavault over Shock unless there really isnt much control by you.

I feel like it loses some consistency by only having a few 4-of creatures. Reckoner, Pheonix and Fanatic are all AMAZING. You at least want 4 Reckoner and 4
Pheonix. Possibly even a 4th Fanatic. Not sure if its worth the downside of having 2 of him in your opener, which is kinda shitty.

The Weird is really interesting but not quite sure if hes worthy of the mainboard spot...think I want the 4th of the above named cards instead. Who knows though? Let's test it!! Hell, maybe even cut Firedrinker for the Weird instead. Thats prob crazy talk though

Last, if we are going to cut a Chandra, I think we need to figure out if it is her we should cut or the Hammer from the maindeck. I feel like Hammer and Chandra are probably both equally good against Control decks. Chandra is a lot better against creature decks though. Therefore she would seem like the best maindeck card. Maybe 2 Hammers in the board instead.

If probably go 4 Mogis, 1 Chandra so you can never draw 2. Great deck.

Drawing both copies of a card in a deck seems pretty unlikely. With 3 copies, it happens from time to time but 2? Seems
unlikely.

That said, I think its quite possible we want the 4th Mogis. Which means probably want our 23rd land in the form of Mutavault. In the list I posted, I think I'd cut the Hammer for one.

Do you even need Shock? You could have 4 Reckoner, 4 Weird/Phoenix and a 23rd land?

[/quote]

I agree here for the above deck that I want 4 Reck, 4 Pheonix and 2 Mutavault before I want Shocks

[Helios]

Why not firefist striker as anti-reckoner tech? Striker falters something every turn, as opposed to once.

Striker has to swing in order to falter; Shortcutter just lets you alpha-strike the turn you play him.

[DerWille]

I'm back to thinking out loud about how to integrate the Murder King into the deck. First the deck

[deck]
Creatures (22)
Rakdos Cackler x4
Firedrinker Satyr x4
Ash Zealot x4
Young Pyromancer x4
[card]Chandra's Phoenix[/card] x4
Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch x2

Spells (14)
Shockx2
Magma Jet x4
Lightning Strike x4
Dreadborex3
Hammer of Purphoros x1

Planeswalkers (2)
Chandra, Pyromaster x2

Land (22)
Blood Crypt x4
Rakdos Guildgate x4
Mutavaultx2
[card:
15d3hpta]Mountain[/card]x10
Swampx2

Sideboard (13 + 2)
Tymaret, the Murder King x2
Act of Treason x3
Flames of the Firebrand x3
Seismic Stomp x2
Hammer of Purphoros x1
Burning Earth x2
2 More Slots
[/deck]

This deck has a lot of tension running through it. The largest source of tension was Tymaret and the lolhammer. At first glance I thought they were compatible with each other, but after thinking more, I don't think they do. Essentially, Tymaret is mana hungry. He plays at his best when you can cast a spell or two, get some tokens, and then convert those tokens into damage. With Tymaret, shock becomes a 3 mana lava axe (2 burn, swing 1, 2 sac damage). The lolhammer in contrast is about converting resources into threats right now. I don't think the two cards play nice
with each other because when you're using 1 sink, you're not using the other.

Luckily though, I think the cards can be in the same deck together, just not in the same 60. I don't think Tymaret will be viable against control. Against control, a constant stream of threats will pressure them out of the game. However, in board states where each side has lots of creatures, the lolhammer isn't as powerful. The golems don't have evasion to get through damage. I think this is where Tymaret can shine. Throw in a burn package, Tymaret, seismic stomp, and acts of treason to nullify the opponent's board.

Against midrange, I can honestly see both working. The hammer lets you swarm through their big blocker. Tymaret lets you steal and sac.

So which one to main board becomes a meta question. If you expect lots of control, keep the hammers. If you expect more aggro or maybe midrange, go with the Murder King.

Last thing -Ppart of me doubts if Tymaret is actually viable. My original idea for this red
splash black was to bring in a better top end in Exava and a bunch of black removal when red removal was inefficient (reckoners, frostburn weirds, x/5+ creatures, planeswalkers). Building around Tymaret is starting to feel like a cute deck that's powerful when it gets going, but whether or not it can set up is another question entirely. It reminds me of the Young Pyromancer + Guttersnipe decks I saw during a M14 gamesday tournament.

[Khaospawn]

Dpaine, I Ike the changes.

Maybe I'm giving decks like Mono Red too much credit by maindecking Weird, but also he is a somewhat maindeck answer to Blood Baron since I can block,,pump +3, and kill him.

FNM should give me more insight on some tweaks.

[dpaine88]

I'm really not scared of blood baron with a red devotion deck.. Too much burn and first strikers etc and Act in the board

[dpaine88]

He's a 4/4 lifelink to us.. Not a huge problem

[dpaine88]

Chandra's Phoenix and Reckoner are just too amazing not to run 4 Imo.

If the weird us in to hedge vs monored, wouldn't you rather have just reckoner over weird?