Dies to Removal

Alex

Deck doesn't seem terribly good, it has very little reach (only 8 non-creature spells that go to the face) and it seems like it simply loses to RG Monsters and mono u, which is arguably the second best deck in the format.

I also would probably not play Boros Reckoner in a deck with 4 Mutavaults and only 16 basics, considering how badly that Reckoner HAS to be played on t3 for the deck to function. Additionally, Satyr Firedancer is unplayable in a deck with so few burn spells, and is probably just unplayable, period. Searing Blood has to be a questionable inclusion at best, I can't imagine I'd ever want to have it over an actual removal spell on an empty board since it is such a horrible topdeck compared to something like Shock.

tl;dr: I think there are a lot of fundamental problems with the way this deck is built. Most of it stems from the rather questionably ambitious mana base, but it also has a lot of cards that
are completely dead topdecks, which is something you REALLY don't want in an aggressive red deck.

Alex

I think the biggest argument against Nykthos is that it is an absolutely miserable card to have against control (since your devotion will be less than the activation cost a lot of the time) and Mutavault is really hard for those control opponents to interact with. Control is already a pretty good matchup, specifically Esper, so I can't imagine it would make a huge difference either way in an aggro mirror since you're not usually going to have time to activate it for value...

That being said, I'd probably rather just have those 'vaults in case I need to block a Blood Baron on the fly or something.

Alex

Mogis's Marauder seemed a lot better than Hellrider was, and that's saying something. I wouldn't dismiss the idea of a black deck splashing red.

Also replacing Exava is not a good idea. Just cut something else, Exava beats basically every relevant creature in the format in combat.

Alex

I don't know about James, but my first impression was "You took all of the cards that made Nuwen's deck unique out of the deck!"

Mogis's Marauder was a really insane card that I thought was good enough to carry the deck on its own. Was I wrong about that?

Alex

Yeah cos badass Disney prince alex was going "stop posting decklists!"

They should have never given me power.

Alex

Also, deck names?

Red Bulls
Mad Cows
Cowboys
Bullshit
Sacred Cows

Ideas?

After years of playing Diablo II, I could only ever consider "Secret Cow Level" as a deck name. I would register this deck name at any large event for maximum lulz.

Alex

Curve seems too high for only 22 lands. You want 24 in a list like that, ESPECIALLY since you're playing Hammer of Purphoros.

Alex

Alex does that stand for everythread here or just ones were a couple people complain about it?

I'm not sure how to more clearly convey the point. Instead I will just use this image.

Alex

So let me get this straight on the day the rotation happens the entire competitive section will be removed right? Since we have no way of knowing what will be competitive yet right? Come on Alex use your logical reasoning there. Obviously previous block decks will remain competitive at lest untill after states.

Actually yes, that's exactly what will happen. We're going to clear out the subsection and start from zero again in much the same fashion that MTGS does. It leads to less clutter and easier browsing/reading for guests. We have a Block Constructed forum so that information won't be lost, and everything here will be archived. (Probably under the Modern section since these decks will still be legal there and if people want to build upon old
ideas, they can use the information in these threads as a guideline.)

I'm not telling you not to discuss spoiled cards, I'm telling you not to discuss them in threads for decks that are currently established in the CURRENT Standard metagame, not one that will exist a month in the future.

Anyway, my lunch break is over. I suggest you go to the main forum and open a discussion thread there, or even use the Rumor area subforum if you want. You'll get more immediate traffic in the main standard forum I bet, but it can't hurt to crosspost. I can merge the two threads later and leave a ghost thread that redirects later when I get off of work.

Alex

from what I been playing around with voice and the 0/3 mana wall are both a bit of a problem, jund dosnt look like much of a problem honestly, unless it pulls in some REDIC creatures it just seems to lose its base, tusk, huntmaster, Olivia, bonfire, all gone. this leaves a nice midrange vacuum that unless something fills it I think jund is close to dead, that said it is possible it can exist ina mana ramp form with the wall and the plains
walker fulling big craterhoofs and Polukranos and rakdos returns, unless of course something new comes up to swing it back midrange/controlish and less rampish.
We don't know know if jund will be a deck yet because we haven't seen enough spoiled yet. It obviously won't exist in it's current form but it may take on a new form. Again, too early to know.
What pissed me off is posts like this, obviously not reading what i say and what I said had substance and was relevant towards working on a deck it was a observation of what jund lost and based on current knowledge were it may adapt to, if people are going to make dismissve comments with out reading just because "they don't think something belongs here" I'm gonna snap back at them.

Are you kidding me? There was literally nothing aggressive or even wrong about his post. He's 100% right. This forum isn't for "feelings," its for facts. Read the rules again. It shouldn't be
hard, there aren't many.

Here I'll even help so you don't have to hunt them down.

Welcome to the competitive subforum. In an attempt to make the moderation team's life easier, I've decided to make this post to help define the types of posts we wish to house here in this subforum. A lot of the "founding" members of the competitive Standard community had very high hopes for how the competitive section at MTGS would be handled, but after months of repeated neglect and the open support of casual players in the competitive subforums, we watched our hard work turn to a cesspool within weeks. We don't aim to let that happen here.

As such, we do have certain guidelines that will be set in place. The guidelines are as follows:

Non-competitive lists and discussion does not belong here.
Any threads
for decklists that haven't performed at least moderately well in a competitive REL tournament will be moved to developing. If your list meets these credentials please link to a tournament report on either a well-known site like TCGPlayer, or on your LGS' website. Unlike MTGS, we will not be locking and archiving perfectly good threads for being in the wrong subforum, but we would appreciate if you didn't make us do the work of having to move your threads.

Discussion regarding budget alternatives, pet cards, and other non-competitive nuances should be done in either developing or the standard main forum.

Brag posts are fine as long as there are relevant results to go with them.
Taking down a large tournament is no small feat, and as such, if you want to share your triumph with the community, we understand. However, we ask that you provide relevant information along with your brag post, such as your decklist, the size of the event, the finish you made, and
preferably your game-by-game synopsis. Consider it a tournament report with the icing being that you win at the end.

All posts in these subforums require tags.
This means that you tag your post according to what is inside of the thread. This is both for the ease of the typical user as well as ease of moderation. These tags should be typed in front of the name of your thread in the subject line. For those who are unaware of what "tags" mean, here is a short list of appropriate tags and their meanings. I'm sure I'll forget some; don't hesitate to PM me with suggestions.

● [SCD] stands for "single card discussion," and this is generally used when trying to spark discussion for use in a deck of the appropriate archetype.
● [Primer] is used to indicate that there is a primer for a certain archetype in the original post. A primer is a "how to" on how to build and play a certain deck.
● [Q&A] can be used when asking questions
about the archetype, such as intricacies in how to play it, how to sideboard, etc.
● [Variant] is used to describe a variation of an already established archetype. Unless these lists have proven results, we would ask that you post them in the appropriate subforum (developing) instead of the competitive forum.

Civility is encouraged but not enforced.
What does this mean for the average user? If you are breaking any of the guidelines above, the community at large is well within their right to ridicule you with no moderator intervention. We aren't here to hold your hand. We believe and trust in the community enough to understand that if you are being flamed off of a forum by a group of people, there is likely a reason for it. That being said, please take a moment to reflect on the things you post before you post them.

To put this guideline simply; if you're bullshitting, be prepared to get called out on your bullshit.

If you guys, as contributing
members of the community feel as though there needs to be something added here, we can discuss it in this thread. (I'm going to be locking this thread so that I can sticky it, but I am interested in your input.)

Non-competitive lists and discussion does not belong here.
Any threads for decklists that haven't performed at least moderately well in a competitive REL tournament will be moved to developing. If your list meets these credentials please link to a tournament report on either a well-known site like TCGPlayer, or on your LGS' website. Unlike MTGS, we will not be locking and archiving perfectly good threads for being in the wrong subforum, but we would appreciate if you didn't make us do the work of having to move your threads.

Discussion regarding budget alternatives, pet cards, and other non-competitive nuances should be done
in either developing or the standard main forum.

Alex

PS: The early brew forum is "empty" because it got completely cleaned out before M14 dropped. Use it and people will come.

Alex

Well in that case Alex go tell all the people in dos rekis to shut up about our brews cuz wow we are in the wrong thread right.?

Clearly you missed the point of my post, which was to inform you that you need to lose the unhelpful, outwardly aggressive attitude because it doesn't do anything for the thread in question and these types of posts will start vanishing in short order.

Cheers.

Alex

So what your saying is this thread has a different standard then say the dos rekies thread were we are already discussing theros, and it for some reason offends a couple of you cuz your such hard ass red players that we can't discuss them in this thread......right?

There's really no need for this, because Val is right. We can't speculate about whether or not currently known decks are going to be good in the future league, since we don't even know what to expect out of other decks. That being said, discussing it is pretty pointless until we have all of the available information.

The difference between us and MTGSalvation is that we're not going to suspend/ban/whatever you for it, but when someone points out the obvious fact that there's no
need to discuss something until all of the relevant information is presented, that's not "being a little bitch," it's called "knowing all of the angles," which is a tool that good deckbuilders and wise Magic players use to their advantage.

We here at D2R aren't interested in what could be and what might have been, we're interested in what IS and what WILL BE. You'd do well to remember that we choose to base our testing and practices in actual math and data, and not in some Christmas-y "feel good" style of deckbuilding. That's the type of thing that is protected at MTGS.

That being said, I would encourage you to go to or open a speculation thread. The guys here are trying to tune for their last few weeks in Standard with this list, and saying "this is what things might be like in a few weeks" isn't helpful to that because most of the cards in these lists won't be around anymore anyway.

Alex

Decks have been getting more aggressive and playing less lands, so casting Zealous Conscripts hasn't been a priority.

Alex

Merging this thread with Zeman's primer.

Alex

Most of the editing is done. I cleaned up all your typos and formatting issues from the port from MTGS. A lot of the links still lead to MTGS but there isn't much that can be done about that, because that's a LOT of threads to attempt to port over, and screw that.

Alex

James, I'm going to be editing your primer to fix the formatting and all of that. It didn't port over perfectly from MTGS but I have some free time...

Alex

I played Reverberate a little bit in the list. Copying Sphinx's Revelation always felt good, but other than that it was pretty mediocre. It was a red Dissipate a lot.

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