Dies to Removal

17 Mountains is pretty greedy for a list with Phoenix, but I like the idea of the deck.

Ok, I might have been mistaken. The original Tom Ross list posted by SCG had 3 Eidolons in the main. I just looked up the same list and the Eidolons are in the SB. Hmmm...

I'm watching coverage at lunch and I see him with Ash Zealot maindeck.

I imagine it has to do with the fact that Ash Zealot's first strike ability is irrelevant in a format with Sylvan Caryatid, Courser of Kruphix, and Desecration Demon. When played on curve Eidolon does effectively the same thing early (two damage immediately) while being more effective when left unanswered.

MTGO has more grinders and the grinders like aggressive decks they can multi-queue with.

I've loved my white splash and can't imagine running the deck without it.

Yeah, they've spiked massively online. I should have followed my gut and bought more online.

My record in match play so far:

Mono black: 2-0
UWx control: 2-0
RW Burn: 0-1
RDW: 1-0
White Weenie: 1-0
Jund Walkers: 0-1
Dredge: 1-0
Other: 2-0

My matchup vs Jund Walkers was mostly me getting unlucky. Mull to five in g1 and then stuck on two land g2 with the second land being Mutavault so I couldn't chain the two Emissaries in my hand. Chandra is a real beating vs us but they are very slow out of the gate. I felt like this was a 50/50 matchup while playing.

Ajani is pretty brutal against this deck. I would anticipate creature decks with white to be playing a couple of these in the 75 for red matchups.

It may be time to just cut the Boros Charms completely. I've actually used it for something besides a four damage burn spell twice in 11 matches (both vs opponent's Brave the Elements in White Weenie while I was attacking), and I've walked all over UW control without it. That means we're really just splashing white for sideboard cards. Is that good? I'm not sure. Chained to the Rocks is EXCELLENT in this deck and Keening Apparition offers some insurance against more obscure matchups (Hexproof) as well as any deck with Courser of Kruphix. We're really not sacrificing much for the white splash so I think it's fine. We may just want to focus on being able to transform more vs aggro in postboard games.

[deck]
Creatures (36)
4 Foundry Street Denizen
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Legion Loyalist
4 Firefist Striker
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
2 Goblin Shortcutter
2 Keening Apparition
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Rubblebelt Maaka

Spells (4)
4 Boros Charm

Lands (20)
2 Mutavault
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Sacred Foundry
2 Mana Confluence
8 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
4 Chained to the Rocks
3 Forge Devil
2 Keening Apparition
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Frontline Medic
1 Mutavault
[/deck]

Decent results today. Made some good discoveries and beat up on a lot of people. Turns out Frontline Medic is the nut high against dredge. I haven't been able to Forge Devil people yet which makes me sad. White Weenie is as annoying to play against as I though it'd be, but still a winnable matchup. It's possible that the deck may just want more burn spells.

This sounds like a "who's the beatdown" problem more than anything. Maybe you aren't mulling aggressively enough or maybe your 75 isn't optimized for the mirror?

I love Magical Christmasland!

Yeah, 12 cards to play off of a turn 3 Servant, leaving 2 lands untapped sure is Christmasland. And by playing Servant on 2, you absolutely have to sac it and 2-for-1 yourself into removal/counters, because you simply have no choice but to sac it.

Easy there, home slice. Don't get your panties in a wad. My point is that having 12 cards to play it off that aren't particularly impactful is not a good strategy. If I'm playing
Generator Servant I want to be pumping out much better cards than Rabblemaster and Firefist Striker, and if I'm just interested in another 2-power dude I'd much rather be playing Burning-Tree Emissary for a similar effect except it's a better card because it doesn't die to Golgari Charm.

I love Magical Christmasland!

I was able to test a little bit this morning. Beat mono black 2-0, UW control 2-0, Boss Sligh 2-1, and losing 0-2 to Jund Walkers. So far I haven't been impressed with Frenzied Goblin and I've sided him out of every matchup. I might try to add more reach with Stoke the Flame and/or Lightning Strike.

I find the lack of Firedrinker Satyr and Rakdos Cackler quite disturbing. It's really not a good list.

[deck]
Creatures (36)
4 Foundry Street Denizen
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Legion Loyalist
3 Frenzied Goblin
4 Firefist Striker
2 Goblin Shortcutter
2 Keening Apparition
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Pyrewild Shaman
4 Rubblebelt Maaka

Spells (4)
4 Boros Charm

Lands (20)
2 Mutavault
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Sacred Foundry
2 Mana Confluence
8 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
4 Chained to the Rocks
3 Forge Devil
2 Keening Apparition
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Frontline Medic
1 Mutavault
[/deck]

Updated 75. I'm probably going to play this at the IQ in three weeks.

Needs more Rabblemaster too. There's no reason not to play the card if you're playing things like Shortcutter. Push your curve up and get more Mountains. I also don't think you need Chained maindeck.

10 Mountains for Chained is meh.

I'm thinking maybe 2 Seismic Stomp for against aggro, since that enables a blowout swing. I got into a situation tonight in the mirror where we just sat there for turn after turn, because we were stalemated.

That's because you're not running Legion Loyalist like you should.

You definitely want four Denizen. The synergy with Akroan Crusader and BTE makes it too powerful to run less than the full amount.

Four Harness is waaaaaaaaaaay too many. It's not a card you want to see in your opener.

Yeah Medic is basically Loyalist 5-6 except a bit worse due to lack of haste. It's resistant to Golgari Charm and Drown in Sorrow though which is nice.

There's a real argument for both decks. Sligh mulls a lot and is a bit worse in aggro mirrors. RDW has a slightly less consistent goldfish. What I like about Boros is that I get a real sideboard that can catch opponents off guard.

I just realized yesterday that Wear / Tear should be Keening Apparition. I'm actually finding room for 1-2 main.

The only issue with forge devil against white is if they brave while the creature is on the stack, you'll be forced to ping one of your own creatures once the creature results and the ETB goes on the stack because none of their creatures are legal targets and the devil's trigger is mandatory. Be careful if they have open mana and all your creatures are 1 toughness. Although I guess worst case, it's still just a 1 for 1 because the devil would just kill itself.

Yes, and in fact I would invite that to occur because it means I won't be attacking into a Brave the Elements which is disastrous for this deck and one of the reasons I wanted Iroas or Frontline Medic for postboard games.

curios what purpose forge devil serves beside bringing it in against small agro, but with shortcutters and frenzied it seems a bit niche. if that's what its for scouring sands or electricery could be better as a wipe instead of a single target kill.

What Elricity said. It's a literal 2-for-1 in every case vs small aggro decks. It's particularly brutal against mono black aggro and mono red aggro because of how many one-toughness creatures they run. White decks can mitigate the effectiveness depending on how many token generators they're running, but it's still really strong against them.

Honestly the only other card I would consider in Forge Devil's place would be Circle of Flame, but it can be played
around a bit more with enchantment removal, anthems, and mid-combat pump, and it does nothing to help me attack early in the game which is exactly what this deck wants to do. My opponent might not be able to attack through my Circle of Flame, but I can't exactly attack through his guys either if I don't have Loyalists (I'm probably siding out Frenzied Goblin and Goblin Shortcutter in aggro mirrors).

[deck]
Creatures (36)
4 Foundry Street Denizen
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Legion Loyalist
3 Frenzied Goblin
4 Firefist Striker
3 Goblin Shortcutter
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Pyrewild Shaman
4 Rubblebelt Maaka

Spells (4)
4 Boros Charm

Lands (20)
2 Mutavault
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Sacred Foundry
2 Mana Confluence
8 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
4 Chained to the Rocks
3 Forge Devil
2 Wear / Tear
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Frontline Medic
1 Mutavault
[/deck]

That's MUCH better.

I'm beginning to wonder if the Iroas shouldn't just be Frontline Medic. The latter is more flexible since he can come in against control to shut down Revelation. In fact that would be a nice clean swap postboard for control if I had two of them in the board. -3 Shortcutter, -3 Frenzied Goblin, -1 Legion Loyalist, +4 Revoker, +1 Wear / Tear, +2 Frontline Medic.

Excellent! My meta is very green so I built the 75 with that in mind. Who knew one mana Terminate was good, eh?

Well it's not so much that as the set has been legal for one weekend and I have yet to play since the prerelease. I also had to order some of the M15 cards to complete the deck. But yes, I do get to test a lot more on MTGO and I plan on doing so.

I don't know. I have yet to play the list since M15 has only been legal for a couple of days and I had to order my Rabblemasters and Forges. It was between him and Purphoros and I chose Iroas because he's better earlier in the game and I expect Circle of Flame to catch on as hot tech against these kinds of decks (does work against this deck, white weenie, and mono black aggro).

[deck]
Creatures (36)
4 Foundry Street Denizen
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Legion Loyalist
3 Frenzied Goblin
4 Firefist Striker
3 Goblin Shortcutter
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Pyrewild Shaman
4 Rubblebelt Maaka

Spells (4)
4 Boros Charm

Lands (20)
2 Mutavault
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Sacred Foundry
2 Mana Confluence
8 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
4 Chained to the Rocks
3 Forge Devil
2 Wear / Tear
4 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Legion's Initiative
1 Iroas, God of Victory
[/deck]

Blew up my last post concerning my decklist. That feeling when you hit edit to quote your deck so you don't have to type it all out again, then get called away right as you're about to copy it and come back forgetting that you are still on the post you were trying to copy and you submit the changes...

Anyway, same list except for two sideboard cards. Took out Glare of Heresy and Hall of Triumph for Iroas, God of Victory
and Legion's Initiative. My meta is very midrange heavy so Iroas makes sense here. I liked MDU's suggestion of Legion's Initiative. Seems more flexible than Hall of Triumph.

Couldn't have happened to a better guy.

I think I prefer Maaka builds because low land hands are easier to keep and it makes your ground guys mote threatening when you don't have Firefist Striker or Frenzied Goblin out. That's the nice thing about Maaka and Loyalist - they make combat on the ground an absolute nightmare and hatebears like Fiendslayer Paladin are just chumps.

In text format:

[deck]
Creatures (30)
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Foundry Street Denizen
3 Firedrinker Satyr
3 Frenzied Goblin
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Firefist Striker
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Chandra's Phoenix

Spells (8)
4 Lightning Strike
4 Stoke the Flames

Lands (22)
4 Mutavault
18 Mountain
[/deck]

I like it. 3cmc slot is a bit crowded and I'd probably swap a Frenzied Goblin for the fourth Firedrinker Satyr since he's running eight burn spells, but otherwise it looks legit.

I've had Spike Jester in the back of my mind but I'm not sure what else black offers. Also, we don't have a RB painland so playing Spike Jester actually slows the deck down a bit (somewhat counterintuitive). I think white happens to offer more flexibility in the 75 as well as being more resilient to control.

A good suggestion. I would probably remove Glare of Heresy and Hall of Triumph for two. It's a little worse against Golgari Charm but is basically Boros Charm 5-6 against control and strictly better against Drown in Sorrow.

[deck]
Creatures (36)
4 Foundry Street Denizen
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Legion Loyalist
3 Frenzied Goblin
4 Firefist Striker
3 Goblin Shortcutter
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Pyrewild Shaman
4 Rubblebelt Maaka

Spells (4)
4 Boros Charm

Lands (20)
2 Mutavault
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Sacred Foundry
2 Mana Confluence
8 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
4 Chained to the Rocks
3 Forge Devil
2 Wear / Tear
4 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Legion's Initiative
1 Iroas, God of Victory
[/deck]

Look at it this way - you're running so many one drops that you effectively DO have BTE in your list. That's why I'm not running more than two Mutavault. I want to cast two 2 drops on turn two consistently.

I'm also considering this:

[deck]
Creatures (36)
4 Foundry Street Denizen
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Legion Loyalist
3 Frenzied Goblin
4 Firefist Striker
3 Goblin Shortcutter
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Pyrewild Shaman
4 Rubblebelt Maaka

Spells (4)
4 Boros Charm

Lands (20)
2 Mutavault
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Sacred Foundry
2 Mana Confluence
8 Mountain
[/deck]

This would make the control matchup even more heavily favored in game one while allowing access to Chained to the Rocks, Wear / Tear, Glare of Heresy, etc postboard. Boros Charm is also cute with Goblin Rabblemaster if we're attacking with Legion Loyalist.

[deck]
Creatures (36)
4 Foundry Street Denizen
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Legion Loyalist
3 Frenzied Goblin
4 Firefist Striker
3 Goblin Shortcutter
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Pyrewild Shaman
4 Rubblebelt Maaka

Spells (4)
1 Dynacharge
3 Lightning Strike

Lands (20)
2 Mutavault
18 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
1 Electrickery
1 Dynacharge
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Bomber Corps
1 Hall of Triumph
[/deck]

Sideboard is a huge work in progress, but I know I want that sweet Bomber Corps tech for red mirrors and mono black aggro (and white weenie if that becomes a thing again).

I'm not getting defensive, I'm only pointing out that some amount of reasoning needs to be included in responses to deck ideas. "Ew" doesn't cut it.

Your deck looks fine even though i'm not sure going all-in on the goblin theme is the 'best' (loose term when it comes to deckbuilding of course) way to go. I'm interested to see how the deck develops and I hope we're gonna see a bunch of different 'viable' small red decks. Either way, I applaud you both for your creativity.

Agreed that there's a tension between how many goblins to run vs running ACTUAL
good cards. That's something I'm trying to sort out currently and I can see LP is going through the same. I fear LPs list may be too soft to control because it sacrifices speed for power, and Obelisk is relatively easy for them to interact with (counterspells, Detention Sphere, Banishing Light).