[Primer] PyroRed

[kahmos]

@ LaZerBurn - Fixed the mana, thank you sir.

@ Khaospawn - I have not read this thread about FoM being necessary for red, but when I have played Fanatic, I often found myself with sub ideal circumstances against any deck with spot removal and Supreme Verdict, therefore I ended up holding BTE until I played FoM. It felt like if my opponent ignored what I was doing, then FoM was good, which I didn't like, as it has been stated earlier in this thread, this decklist is much more interactive, and I expect people will have a harder time playing against it while I enjoy playing it much more. I am never attacking with FoM, to me it is a cheap Lava Axe.

@ Windstrider - Yay! Somebody is glad to see me!

I was trying to think of any more advantages to splashing green with this deck, and I was thinking of replacing Skullcrack with Destructive Revelry.
It hits Whip of Erebos, Bident of Thassa, Bow
of Nylea, Detention Sphere, Chained to the Rocks, triggers YP$ and brings back Chandra's Phoenix.

[windstrider]

I'm of the middle opinion: it's a decent card. I just like playing PyroRed better right now. Eventually, I'll try one of the Fanatic builds when I want to try something different.

Kahmos — I wouldn't go that far.
But, yes, welcome aboard.

[LaZerBurn]

Help please!

I'm playing PyroBoros on MTGO and I am having serious issues playing against Mono U Devotion. I'm currently 1-4 against them, 3-9 in games. I may be just having one of those runs of bad luck that sometimes happen in MTG but it seems as if they have an answer to every play I make, every single time, (I cast Chains on MoW, they cast another then bounce my first Chains, I shoot the Weird, they turn it into a fucking frog etc) to the point that I'm starting to think the deck is unbeatable unless it stumbles and beats itself.

My games generally follow a pattern of them either dropping everything they need to halt my early beats - Weird, Tidebinder, Spectre before drawing into Thassa and MoW (usually with a Bident thrown in) and then crushing me so harshly it's not even funny or me managing to get them down to 5 - 8 life and
believe I can win the game before they then stabilise and crush me.

I don't get the impression anyone else here is having quite so much trouble so I'm wondering if any of you have any general tips or advice against the deck How the fuck do you beat it?

[InflatablePie]

I didn't bother taking notes last night, but:

Round 1: UB Control, 2-0 (game 2 his Ashiok absorbed 10 points of damage. looking back, I maybe could have ignored it)
Round 2: Maze's End 2-1 (he gained 35 life total game 1, I lost. drew a Skullcrack games 2 and 3 to negate his Saruli Gatekeepers. so glad I decided on those.)
Round 3: Mono Red 2-0 (some AIR variant. he wasn't the best pilot of the deck, won fairly easily)
Round 4: Devotion Red 2-1 (this chick knew how to pilot a red deck. game 1 I didn't get a single point of damage in (BTE BTE FFS t2 hurts). game 2 I slowly stabilized but was at 3 for a few turns, which fucking scared the hell out of me since she hadn't played a Lightning Strike yet that game. game 3 she mulled to five and I slowly took the game)
Round 5: Junk Midrange 0-0-3 (saw this guy playing last match and decided to draw because I knew I couldn't win. we played the match anyway. lost game 1 to
a giant Lotleth Troll, won game 2, lost game 3)
Round 6: WU Heroic 2-0 (looked like an event deck edit? offered to draw, he refused, I just kept him off his creatures with burn and won easily)

Cut top top 8, the Junk player drew with his last opponent putting me at the first seed, it was 12:30am though and we all ended up splitting. Which I like because at my other LGS people always want to play it out and I'm tired/biking home at 1-2am. Took 5 packs over $10 store credit, pulled nothing useful. But I have my Rampager promo

Next week I'm probably paying the optional $5 to double any prize winnings, especially if I can top 8 easily and they're willing to split most nights. That's $20 store credit and I can just go infinite from there pretty much. Also sold some singles for a good chunk of money: 2x Thassa for $28 (paid $20 for them), 4x Jace AoT for $48 (paid $32), 2x Blood Baron for $12 (paid $4-6?), and a Reckoner
I got in a draft for $12. Bringing me to $122 where the other store woulda gave me around $90.

Made some sweet trades, too.
UB Temple+RG Temple+2x Supreme Verdict -> 3x Thalia, 2x Abrupt Decay (!!)
1x Deadeye Navigator -> 1x Mirran Crusader (I think he sees play in Legacy/Modern?)
2x Ratchet Bomb -> 1x Deadeye Navigator (because I have 6-7 playsets of bombs sitting in my binder and I like Deadeye <_<)

[InflatablePie]

Oh, so I never drew my flex slot when I boarded it in. I think I just want another Mortars for now. Mostly because it hits Blood Baron, so I'd rather make something a 3-of than have a one-of I might never draw.

[Jack]

Khaos — The RDW thread on Sally is infested with people proclaiming that Fanatic is a staple in Red builds right now. Anyone foolish enough to not be using it can't possibly hope to win. Kahmos is of the opposite opinion.

There are two types of people when it comes to Fanatic of Mogis. One camp believes it's the second coming of Hellrider and the other camp thinks it is complete shit. After having played my ass off with that card, I'm just really sick of hearing
both opinions. Especially from people that don't have the courtesy of sharing actual play results.

Amen.

[Jack]

As for my FNM, I went 2-1. Yup, there were only 3 rounds, since my LGS hosts both draft and standard/modern every Friday, which causes there to be minimal participation in both . 20 people showed up, so 10 played standard.
I was on PyRos (see the list in my sig. It's pretty basic, since I'd never played the deck before the event).
Round 1 I lost to Scott, playing Dega Mid/Control (I still don't know how to classify this deck, since it doesn't play like a control deck, but it plays very little low-cost creatures like I'm used to seeing in midrange). Game 1 I get off to a fast start and he can't stop me. Game 2 he stops me with Whip and Reckdaddy and I flooded out, even with 5 lands at the bottom of my deck. Game 3 I keep a 5 card hand, and I feel like that was the cause of my demise. I get off to a
very good start and am able to bring him down to 2 and keep him there for a few turns. He drops Obzedat and goes back up to 4. I have Phoenix in my grave and draw a Lightning Strike. I have 4 lands. This is where I realize that I got fucked over by mulligans. I come to the revelation that mulligans aren't only bad because it's harder to get a good starting hand off of 5 cards than it is off of 7, but because, by the late game, you wish you'd have had more lands/gas. I burn him and get Phoenix back, draw Ash Zealot the next turn, cast Ash Zealot, draw a mountain next, and lose. Good games overall, but he came out ahead.
Peak Eruption is a fine Magic card. As an aggro player in midrange-heavy Boyertown, PA, I am keeping this card in my sideboard.

Round 2 I beat Nate with Jund Midrange. His deck was bad. He was building Jund for Modern (2 'Goyfs and 1 Maelstrom Pulse short of a complete deck. He was playing Quiron Dryad in place of Goyf for the time being, but it's just not the same thing),
and tried to make a Standard version of the deck. DRS, while a fantastic Magic card, just isn't the same without fetches. He also never saw Scavenging Ooze, a card that may have helped him a bit. I honestly don't remember how these games went aside for the fact that he gave very little resistance.

Round 3 I played Tony with Mono-blue Devotion. I've been contemplating how to classify this deck for some time, and I believe it to be just a beatdown deck with some tempo elements that happens to be well-positioned in the meta. He wins the die roll and gets his nutdraw game 1. Turn 2 Frostburn-> turn 3 Thassa -> turn 4 Master -> turn 5 Master is pretty damn tough to beat, and I cannot beat it. Game 2 I am very aggressive, despite cutting all my 1-drops. Being on the play was very helpful. I landed a turn 2 Ash Zealot and was able to burn away his early creatures. He is able to get Thassa out as a creature, but even a god-king can bleed
be chained to a mountain. I win, but I forget exactly how. Game 3 was awesome. This matchup is conducive to some very fun board states. He leads with Judge's Familiar and I shock it. I drop Ash Zealot, he plays Wall of Frost. I play Chandra's Phoenix (love this card ), he keeps it tapped with Tidebinder Mage. I play something that gets countered and pass. Some interesting shit happens in the next few turns, the exact details of which I cannot recall, but it involves me killing his Tidebinder Mage and landing a Chandra, which I use to help my Ash Zealot get through his Wall of Frost; him playing another Wall of Frost; him playing Thassa as a creature; and me trying to chain Thassa to some rocks, only to have her find her voyage's end. I'm able to keep the pressure up, and the game ends in a flurry of [card=fire]Chandra's Phoenix[/card] and [card=lightning]Lightning
Strike[/card].

4th place gets 1 pack in a 10-man FNM

[Jack]

Also, could I ask just one thing of everyone here? For your tournament reports, include your opponents' names. Not only does it help you to remember the games a bit better because you have a name to make a connection to rather than just a deck; it also shows me that you view your opponent as more than just "the opponent" because you took the time to ask him his name and remember it, or at the very least write it down on your life pad.

[RedNihilist]

I've tried to go Boros for the local Game Day, and I've lucked through the whole event.
I'll post a report later.

[Helios]

Also, could I ask just one thing of everyone here? For your tournament reports, include your opponents' names. Not only does it help you to remember the games a bit better because you have a name to make a connection to rather than just a deck; it also shows me that you view your opponent as more than just "the opponent" because you took the time to ask him his name and remember it, or at the very least write it down on your life pad.

Very much this. Respecting your opponent will get you far.

[Khaospawn]

Also, could I ask just one thing of everyone here? For your tournament reports, include your opponents' names. Not only does it help you to remember the games a bit better because you have a name to make a connection to rather than just a deck; it also shows me that you view your opponent as more than just "the opponent" because you took the time to ask him his name and remember it, or at the very least write it down on your life pad.

Somebody, I can't remember who (LP, maybe?) said that some Army guy told his men in Vietnam to call the enemy "Mr. Charles," since that was a sign of respect. He reasoned that the minute you stopped respecting the enemy is when you lose.

I caught myself ever since then writing down the
names of all my opponents on the scoresheet.

Great point, freedom.

[DerWille]

Also, could I ask just one thing of everyone here? For your tournament reports, include your opponents' names. Not only does it help you to remember the games a bit better because you have a name to make a connection to rather than just a deck; it also shows me that you view your opponent as more than just "the opponent" because you took the time to ask him his name and remember it, or at the very least write it down on your life pad.

Somebody, I can't remember who (LP, maybe?) said that some Army guy told his men in Vietnam to call the enemy "Mr. Charles,"
since that was a sign of respect. He reasoned that the minute you stopped respecting the enemy is when you lose.

I caught myself ever since then writing down the names of all my opponents on the scoresheet.

Great point, freedom.

That's my Grandpa for you.

Also freedom, I keep the names out because I don't want to plaster them up all around the internet. It's a habit from when I was doing more PUA and you referred to girls as HBNickname. I do respect my opponents though, even Mono-Green Little Kid who was fucking terrifying.

[Khaospawn]

Also, could I ask just one thing of everyone here? For your tournament reports, include your opponents' names. Not only does it help you to remember the games a bit better because you have a name to make a connection to rather than just a deck; it also shows me that you view your opponent as more than just "the opponent" because you took the time to ask him his name and remember it, or at the very least write it down on
your life pad.

Somebody, I can't remember who (LP, maybe?) said that some Army guy told his men in Vietnam to call the enemy "Mr. Charles," since that was a sign of respect. He reasoned that the minute you stopped respecting the enemy is when you lose.

I caught myself ever since then writing down the names of all my opponents on the scoresheet.

Great point, freedom.

That's my Grandpa for you.

Also freedom, I keep the names out because I don't want to plaster them up all around the internet. It's a habit from when I was doing more PUA and you referred to girls as HBNickname. I do respect my opponents though, even Mono-Green Little Kid who was fucking terrifying.

Your Grandpa was a wise man.

[zemanjaski]

You have to look at your opponent like a thinking, living, intelligent and capable person. If you don't and instead are dismissive of their plays, you get sloppy and miss things.

[Yarpus]

At least during game. After, feel free to piss on his deck and slap him with dick.

[zemanjaski]

Current 75:

[deck]
Creatures
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Firefist Striker
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Young Pyromancer

Spells
2 Chandra, Pyromaster

Instants
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Shock

Lands
18 Mountain
4 Mutavault

Sideboard
3 Act of Treason
4 Mizzium Mortars
4 Peak Eruption
4 Skullcrack
[/deck]

[Yarpus]

I think I'd rather play Annihilating Fire over Peak Eruption in SB. But I'm not sure about meta on Modo. PE is good with lots of Dega and no Rx Aggro I guess.

[zemanjaski]

Fire for GW I assume? It's pretty great there, but I haven't seen GW all week! I really only play UW control; black based control or Green-Red variants. So Fires isn't great for me right now.

I did go turn 3, 4 and 6 Peak Eruption against a Jund brew today. He was actually pretty sporting about it, didn't complain at all, wished me luck to go 4-0. His deck was sweet, so I want to look at Jund as well :S

[Helios]

Winning games with Peak Eruption just feels so good. Chain my turn 2 Zealot? Sure thing, lemme play my Peak Eruption.

[Aodh]

How'd your Boros Pyro do last night?

[Helios]

4-1, only loss to mono U devo. The games were by-and-large uneventful, so I was going to spend some time writing the primer instead of an FNM report. For reference I played B/W midrange (erring on the side of control), half-built Esper, U devotion, Dega, and Junk. Feel free to ask specific questions, I just don't intend to write the usual report.

[Link]

I feel like peak eruption isnt what you want against the R/W decks with Reckoners though, am I wrong here?

[Helios]

It absolutely wrecks Dega and America; Chained to the Rocks deals with Reckoner nicely. I haven't played mono red or Gruul at my store since I put the Peak Eruptions in the SB, so I don't know how it plays against them.

[Link]

Well yesterday at FNM a guy had a 1-of peak eruption vs. me (Gruul) and uh... let's just say it hit my stomping ground and then he burned both my dorks so I had this nice one forest out while I died to ash zealots.


Keeps em off dragons and shit though, so its worth trying out if they dont have a lot of early creatures like experiment one+tuskers, if they are on the ramp caryatid plan I say blow em up

[InflatablePie]

re:names - I've been doing that lately on my life total sheets, but don't usually bother with it in reports, didn't think anyone cared. *shrug*

@Helios: any notes on Dega/Mono-U/Junk? Faced the first two today and had trouble with Junk yesterday.

Anyway! Decided to use the flex slot for a third Mortars. Went to my new LGS, entry was $10 and payout was 3 packs per player.

Quick recap:
Round 1 - Esper Control (2-0). Nothing to see here.
Round 2 - GR Midrange (2-0). He flooded out a bit game 2 and I chained his only threat (Polukranos).
Round 3 - Mono-U (1-2). First loss of the day. Sided in Reckoners and kept them, should have taken them back out for one-drops since he boarded into a more controlling shell. Mistake.
Round 4 - Mono-G (2-0). Kept shocking/jetting Boon Satyrs, nothing else really hit the field.
-cut to top 4-
Round 5 - Dega (2-0). Chipped away Game 1. Game 2 he had a D-Demon tapped with a counter
on it and a Keyrune, with mana up to activate. I had Ashley and a Strike in hand, topdecked Chandra. He was at 6 with I think one-two cards in hand, I was at 14. Decided to play Zealot, swing, trade, and strike him to 3. Topdecked a Boros Charm for the win.
-Finals-
Round 6 - White Weenie

Game 1 I kept a one-lander. Foundry, Chained, Shock, Jet, Jet, Strike, Phoenix. Terrible mistake, he ran me over with a Captain, Dryad and Ajani. Sided in the usual 8 (4 Reckoner, 4 Chained, only two Mortars).

Game 2 he kept a one-lander (after a mull, with two 1-drops and a Brave) and I rolled over him. So I tell him I wanted to actually play Magic (both games we agreed were unfair), and we agree not to keep one-landers game 3.

Game 3 I draw a similar hand to Game 1, but with a scryland. I mulligan instantly, keep a hand with a Shock, Reckoner, and some lands. Topdeck enough burn to keep him off creatures in time. Mortars for a Reckoner, double-shock for two Precinct Captains, the works.
He laid down a Priest and took a Phoenix, I dropped an Zealot and swung. He blocked, played a Brave, and I jetted it in response. He laid down a Militant and Ajani next turn, +1. I swing at Ajani with my Phoenix and him with Zealot. He takes all of it, next turn +1's Ajani (4) and has a 4/3 Militant. I Chain it up, swing in, drop a Reckoner. He can't draw out of it.

First Game Day I actually had a deck for/time off for, and I won. Got 14 packs (should have taken $28 credit but oh well) and the sexy playmat.

Loot: Nylea, UG Scryland, RG Scryland, Triad of Fates, Hammer, Anger, 2x Celes Archon, 2x Nighthowler, Meletis Charlatan, Psychic Intrusion, Baconate, Shipbreaker Kraken. Also foil Feral Invocation + Abhorrent Overlord, and a Golem token. And of course the participant+top 8 promos.

Much thanks to Z, Helios, and the other PyroRed players; this is probably my most favorite deck ever.

[zemanjaski]

This is basically a Delver deck, now that I think about it. Now we just need a Batterskull equivalent >:)

[Helios]

Great job, Pie! Notes on the Junk/Dega incoming. Re: mono U, I haven't played it enough to wrap my head around the game plan.

Fate: Thanks redbro. Peak Eruption get!

[zemanjaski]

I feel like peak eruption isnt what you want against the R/W decks with Reckoners though, am I wrong here?

Depends exactly on what type of RW deck they are. It's brutal against most of them honestly.

[Helios]

Primer has been updated. Next step is Key Interactions + formatting the match-up guide and integrating it into the primer.

Dega: You want to play an aggressive game while not playing into Anger. Remember that you can burn your own guys in response to Anger/Chained/Helix. Don't be scared of Desecration Demon- the card basically reads "Your opponent decides whether this creature can attack or block." Resolving Chandra is key, and Peak Eruption games 2/3 is dope. Boros Charm is an option to counter their removal, and I find Hammer to be excellent in this matchup, though with the addition of Peak Eruption it is probably unnecessary.

Junk: This is tough, but you should be able to clearly identify the problem cards and deal with them accordingly. I found that Voice isn't actually a big deal, and you can ignore it for the most part. Try and hold back Chained for Advent tokens, and if you can force them into playing
Advent on your attack step, it can save you some damage. Wear // Tear for Whip/Courage, Mortars for field wipes, Chained for dudes. I've been playing the matchup by trading and grinding out the game, then winning with Chandra, YP, or Phoenix + getting in there with 1 drops G1. It seems to be working for me.

[zemanjaski]

Junk is the worst matchup, at about 40%. Everything else is good to great. Junk is about 1% of the meta online. I can live what that.

[Helios]

Z, I just noticed lack of Reckoner in your MTGO list. Penny for your thoughts? Something to do with the 4 Mutavaults, I assume?

[zemanjaski]

Yeah. Not castable. I'm really slanted to beat control and black midrange, both of which Reckoner isn't good against. When the meta goes the other way ill change back.

[Helios]

Looking at my meta (listed below), what about:
[deck]Side:
2 Boros Charm
3 Skullcrack
4 Peak Eruption
2 Chained to the Rocks
3 Mizzium Mortars
1 Wear // Tear[/deck]

Maybe -2 Charm, -1 Mortars, -1 Peak Eruption, +4 Reckoner. Thinking of testing Stormbreath in the Wear // Tear slot

[zemanjaski]

You need Reckoner. It's just the best card by far against green and red decks.

If recommend a single Assemble as well, so many decks can't ever beat it.

[Aodh]

How was FNM, Z?

[Helios]

[deck]Side:
4 Boros Reckoner
1 Assemble the Legion
3 Skullcrack
3 Peak Eruption
2 Chained to the Rocks
2 Mizzium Mortars
[/deck]
I like the look of that one.

[zemanjaski]

3-1 drop, pip was hungry. Priorities.

Punted badly in my loss, had my opponent at 7 and didn't realise that Boros Charm and Lightning Strike = 7. I had "charm counters wrath" stuck in my head. My opponent drew az charm into double rev and the game slipped away. Meh.

[F.I.A]

Peak Eruption is rather hit-or-miss over at modo. Yeah, it's great when you are able to blow up a mountain and get back the chained creature, but I haven't come across a lot of decks that have been doing that.

[Helios]

It also works fine as a Stone Rain with Lightning Bolt attached

[kahmos]

I went 3-2 at gameday, though I got 5th because my two losses were to first and second place.

My first match was versus Sandy, she was playing a W/U aggro deck of her own homebrew, it was not very good. IIRC I burned every creature she played and auto attacked with a Zealot and a Phoenix both games. She is very new to the game.

My second match was against James, he was playing Jund. He told me at the start of the match that I was probably going to win, because he had to leave soon to go to a military funeral service. He was going to go and come back between rounds and expected me to make the games fast as I am known for playing aggro. First game I burn his mystics and dreg manglers while attacking with two cacklers into his sylvan craytid. He still manages to ramp into a stormbreath dragon, but I had a bolt/shock waiting for it, and he topdecked lands as I jammed my creatures/spells into him. Second game I played zealot/
reckoner on curve, and he ramps into a stormbreath, which meets a mizzium mortars and as soon as that happened he left, giving me the 2-0.

My third match was against Kevin playing R/G monsters. First game I hit for two and get walled by reckoner with two zealots, I play Phoenix and he Angers the board, and follows up with a stormbreath dragon, and I could not top deck removal for it as he beats my face in with that and a scavenging ooze. Second game I mull to 6 for a mutavault, mountain, YP, Magmajet, magmajet, shock. Turns went like this
T1: mutavault
T2; Draw mountain, play mountain, cast YP
T3: draw mountain, (cant swing) pass, EOT Jet the dome for scry 2, put two mountains on the bottom of the deck. He has a craytid and Polkranos out
T4: draw a mountain, pass, EOT Jet the dome for scry 2, put two mountains on the bottom, He gets Stormbreath and swings in 9
T5: draw a mountain, pass, he gets another stormbreath, and I scoop
Definitely frustrating.

My fourth match I played Anthony, he was
running RUG control, definitely interesting.
Game 1 I curve out on him and get angered with a phoenix on the board before(my mistake, at the time I thought he was playing white, he wasn't) He then played Xenagos, made a dude and swung in. I only had a YP and a shock, not enough to take care of him. He keeps generating tokens and only attacking with one waiting for Ash Zealots to hit, I end up getting overwhelmed unable to take my 8 damage in hand to the dome for the win. I did however play the match out as if I did have the burn, and he countered two out of three that I had.

Game 2 I pulled in the Hammer and Hydras over shocks. I ended up killing him before he could stabilize with the same three I had the previous game, apparently he didn't have his anger. He did however mizzium mortars my Firedrinkers twice that game, but I didn't let it phase me and finished the match with a phoenix and damage to the head when he tapped out for a Steam Augury which revealed two dispel two lands and a rapid
hybridization.

Game 3 I mulled to 6 and had a YP hand with 1 mortrar, 3 bolts and a land, I kept it and top decked a land after. It was risky but I bolted a defensive Xenagos as well as mortared a Frostburn Wierd, and then continued to beat down with YP and tokens right up until he burned it, then Chandra came down and card advantaged me to victory.

My fifth match I play Pa-pop (I don't know his real name, everyone calls him that.) He is playing mono blue devotion.
Game 1 I have an aggro hand, so on the draw I play a Cackler and pass, to watch him pump his 0/1 flier with a tidebinder mage.
Turn two I shock the mage and cast a Firedrinker and pass He casts a specter and swings 2 from his cloudfin.
Turn three I am angry that I do not have bolt, and play a phoenix and pass, he plays a MoW, and another one the following turn.

Game 2 I side in the mortars, hydras, and revelrys. I pretty much burned every single card he played until he was sitting on a Thassa with a MoW in hand, at that point I had
him down to 12 already, he casts MoW for 2 devotion, and I cast a Phoenix and continue to swing until he is in range for my reach, perfect game against mono U.

Game 3 I mulligan a no land hand, get: mutvault, mountain, YP, shock, shock, chandra. I draw into my other two chandras, and he curves into specter/mow/mow again for the win.



Aside from the single post board mana flood, and the single post board mana screw, the deck was on point. The only single game lost by the mono U devotion deck was my game, and he said that he didn't have a good answer for all of my removal after the match, though his specter did pick up a mistcutter hydra off of the top of my deck and he had a good laugh, up until that point he had not seen a stomping grounds. I might play white weenie+boros tomorrow, but if I see him there I'll be playing the mono red again, fun deck to play that's for sure.