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Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:35 pm
by cloudscraper
I know MJ is I just found it funny.

And waiting for the collective "Oh yeah, BE is terribad"

Sigh. Should've been here an hour ago Zem. Would've saved me the time ;)

I still think you should cut Chandra/the 4 drop for the 2nd Blind Obedience, as the mirror is increasing and it is still a good card in the mirror, and its also good vs. monsters still. I dunno, I still like it.

and I also think that Cackler should be Firedrinker Satyr, and here's why I believe the 2nd one.

Esper is going to start playing Nightveil Specter. We already proved that the hivemind is a beautiful thing and the esper winner, Kyle, said he loved Nightveil Specter vs. Burn.

on top of
that, sometimes you can bring in Satyr vs. Mono-Black (i dont like it vs. BW) and a lot of lists are still running Nightveil Specter.

I also dont like Glare, because the problem cards that are white for us are enchantments anyway. Elspeth we fly over, and once she gets to a high enough Loyalty your probably losing that game anyway, right? So might as well run Wear // Tear

rest of the sideboard is fine, not so much 1 ofs as much as "finishing my 4 ofs"
What do you think about having more than 4 total 1-drops in the board? Like 1 cackler instead of the glare?

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:35 pm
by zemanjaski
Shambles

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:36 pm
by LP, of the Fires
If control weren't running Blob, I'd still be championing that 1-of Stormbreath dragon.

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:37 pm
by zemanjaski
I think the spirit of legato has descended on this thread. Or madding. <3 them both.

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:38 pm
by LP, of the Fires
As much as I like Akainu, I'm more of an Aokiji. That real frosty demeanor though.

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:38 pm
by zemanjaski
I didn't like it before (but understood it), but yeah, now it's actively sucky.

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:38 pm
by zemanjaski
Aokiji is a good fit for you yeah.

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:39 pm
by LP, of the Fires
Lazy Justice and all of that as well.

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:41 pm
by DXI-Edge
See, it's "the people like you" comment that I can't step away from. Nigga, you do not know me.

FUCK. OFF.
I'd appreciate if you didnt use that language, thank you
You can't shit talk me then expect me to give a fuck about your feelings.

Nigga.
You dont have to care about my feelings, have some goddamn respect and dont use that
word please

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:42 pm
by zemanjaski
This brings up something I was thinking about. In Ari Lax's article about the dredge deck he played, he called burn basically unplayable, which while an exaggeration, helped me figure out my hang up with the deck. While playing underpowered red cards isn't something new to me, unless your draws lined up right, you generally had to work much harder then your opponents to win which while not bad, isn't something I'm looking for in my tier 1 deck.

With YP in the mix, you're still playing mental gymnastics(more in fact) but your cards start functioning by themselves as opposed to waiting for your searing blood to come online, or staring at your opponents caryatid with your ash zealot in play along with a shock and a skullcrack against the guy sitting on
16 life or whatever. We've moved more into the realm of "cohesive strategy" because with YP in play our cards work together a lot better making our "combo" plan stronger.
Yeah, YP gives the deck a solid "Plan B" while removing a conditional card for a consistent one.

If people don't want to take the deck seriously that's fine, guess I need to get another 80QPs for the month.

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:42 pm
by Elricity
Chandra is fine vs. Control but actively good vs. Little aggro, bw midrange and the mirror. Just getting more out of that last slot basically.
Going to be honest. Faltering [insert 5 drop control creature] is about the only reason I want to play the card which is a shame because I love her in theory.

How is it good in the mirror? I don't think I've ever seen a mirror game where both players are on topdeck mode and it only hits YP which they may not play. Otherwise, the card is:

[mana]RR2[/mana]

Sorcery
Opponent takes 1 damage.
Your opponent chooses: You gain 5 life or draw a card at the beginning of your next turn. If there is a next turn.

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:43 pm
by LP, of the Fires
Did you read Jsilv's recent article about burn, esper, and everything in between?

Big takeaways where control lists running dispel, negate, and nightveil spectors to compliment thoughtseize, fiendslayer and blob which I could see closing the gaps in the matchup.

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:46 pm
by zemanjaski
FYI Josh and I run our articles past each other.

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:47 pm
by LP, of the Fires
Chandra is fine vs. Control but actively good vs. Little aggro, bw midrange and the mirror. Just getting more out of that last slot basically.
Going to be honest. Faltering [insert 5 drop control creature] is about the only reason I want to play the card which is a shame because I love her in theory.

How is it good in the mirror? I don't think I've ever seen a mirror game where both players are on topdeck mode and it only hits YP which they may not play. Otherwise, the card is:

[mana]RR2[/mana]

Sorcery
Opponent takes 1 damage.
Your opponent chooses: You gain
5 life or draw a card at the beginning of your next turn. If there is a next turn.
Mirror match is going to be about warleaders helix, or CA. Going creature heavy, lets us dictate the pace of play and emphasis CA, virtual or otherwise. Playing chandra lets you gain cards in 1 of several ways. +1 till ultimate(every 3 damage is worth~card), 0-ing to "draw" cards or your opponent throws burn spells at her which will usually net you 2-3 cards worth of value.

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:48 pm
by LP, of the Fires
See, it's "the people like you" comment that I can't step away from. Nigga, you do not know me.

FUCK. OFF.
I'd appreciate if you didnt use that language, thank you
You can't shit talk me then expect
me to give a fuck about your feelings.

Nigga.
You dont have to care about my feelings, have some goddamn respect and dont use that word please
Nigga please.

Respect is earned. Wether or not you had it before is irrelevant because you lost it. So again, kindly fuck off sir :lol:

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:49 pm
by Elricity
Just watched through MDU's videos where the guy resolved two fiendslayers. He couldn't really attack into because of Ash Zealot and MDU was content to let it sit back and bash him to death with a phoenix. Fiendslayer is bad for us only if we have no zealots, boros charms, or 4 toughness of blockers.

Dispel, duress, thoughtsieze, and sin collector though? That's no bueno.

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:50 pm
by LP, of the Fires
FYI Josh and I run our articles past each other.
This while relevant info does not answer my question sir.

:stubborn:

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:52 pm
by Elricity
Chandra is fine vs. Control but actively good vs. Little aggro, bw midrange and the mirror. Just getting more out of that last slot basically.
Mirror match is going to be about warleaders helix, or CA. Going creature heavy, lets us dictate the pace of play and emphasis CA, virtual or otherwise. Playing chandra lets you gain cards in 1 of several ways. +1 till ultimate(every 3 damage is worth~card), 0-ing
to "draw" cards or your opponent throws burn spells at her which will usually net you 2-3 cards worth of value.
Or...he kills you because you tapped out, ala blood baron, Thune, etc. Virtual card advantage is still a thing.

Edit: Also, what else do you board out or not board in? It was already 1 YP or helix, 4 cackler, 1 BO, 1 chain, 1 vault.

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:54 pm
by LP, of the Fires
Just watched through MDU's videos where the guy resolved two fiendslayers. He couldn't really attack into because of Ash Zealot and MDU was content to let it sit back and bash him to death with a phoenix. Fiendslayer is bad for us only if we have no zealots, boros charms, or 4 toughness of blockers.

Dispel, duress, thoughtsieze, and sin collector though? That's no bueno.
Regardless of how good or bad fiendslayer is, it does force us to have something which is why it was mentioned. It gaining 4 life negates a boros charm after all. It's simply a piece of the puzzle and makes the aformentioned cards that much more devastating.

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:55 pm
by Elricity
True, it's a lot to slot in for just burn but eventually, we are going to piss everyone off. More so than now that is.

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:55 pm
by Valdarith
If he kills you when you tap out for Chandra you were losing anyway.

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:58 pm
by Elricity
If he kills you when you tap out for Chandra you were losing anyway.
Disagree. Your own helix or removal for attackers changes it from "I just won!" to "Oh shit, my stuff is gone and/or life totals just swung so that now he's killing me!"

Obviously if your hand is just face burn, then yeah, sure but then you're also not telegraphing that to him by tapping out.

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:59 pm
by LP, of the Fires
Chandra is fine vs. Control but actively good vs. Little aggro, bw midrange and the mirror. Just getting more out of that last slot basically.
Mirror match is going to be about warleaders helix, or CA. Going creature heavy, lets us dictate the
pace of play and emphasis CA, virtual or otherwise. Playing chandra lets you gain cards in 1 of several ways. +1 till ultimate(every 3 damage is worth~card), 0-ing to "draw" cards or your opponent throws burn spells at her which will usually net you 2-3 cards worth of value.
Or...he kills you because you tapped out, ala blood baron, Thune, etc. Virtual card advantage is still a thing.

Edit: Also, what else do you board out or not board in? It was already 1 YP, 4 cackler, 1 BO, 1 chain, 1 vault.
If you're on the creature plan, you generally force them to use burn spells on your guys because rakdos cackler+friends race burn spells in hand. Repeatable sources of damage vs. finite and all that. This is where you get your window to resolve your walker. If they aren't killing your guys and are sending everything at the face, either they're hand is insane, or you should win easily becuase there burn plan requires about 7/8 cards(depending on if they drew
phoenix's) while your plan only requires that you get in 2/3 times with a cackler an ash zealot swing in, and a token from YP while doing it faster then the opponent.

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:59 pm
by DXI-Edge
See, it's "the people like you" comment that I can't step away from. Nigga,
you do not know me.

FUCK. OFF.
I'd appreciate if you didnt use that language, thank you
You can't shit talk me then expect me to give a fuck about your feelings.

Nigga.
You dont have to care about my feelings, have some goddamn respect and dont use that word please
Nigga please.

Respect is earned. Wether or not you had it before is irrelevant because you lost it. So again, kindly fuck off sir :lol:
Calling me a "nigga" and me asking for respect is asking to respect me, its respecting the fact that that word is offensive.

Now, kindly, fuck off, and stop using that FUCKING WORD YOU CUNT

Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:03 am
by LP, of the Fires
Pretty sure I've posted more in this thread today then I've posted about any deck since Devotion red in January. Are we looking at another month of magic riches?

I have a 1k that I'm ACTUALLY gonna play in this saturday and it's at the same location/event type that I won the last won. I'm assuming my renewed posting habits means my fires been rekindled(pretty big deal with GP phoenix around the corner) so I'm likely to take some iteration of this deck.

Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:04 am
by LP, of the Fires

Nigga please.

Respect is earned. Wether or not you had it before is irrelevant because you lost it. So again, kindly fuck off sir :lol:
Finding out you're just another Zemmite made me lose respect for you.
I've personally operated on the assumption that your a Kait gimmick.

Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:05 am
by Elricity
Chandra is fine vs. Control but actively good vs. Little aggro, bw midrange and the mirror. Just getting more out
of that last slot basically.
Mirror match is going to be about warleaders helix, or CA. Going creature heavy, lets us dictate the pace of play and emphasis CA, virtual or otherwise. Playing chandra lets you gain cards in 1 of several ways. +1 till ultimate(every 3 damage is worth~card), 0-ing to "draw" cards or your opponent throws burn spells at her which will usually net you 2-3 cards worth of value.
Or...he kills you because you tapped out, ala blood baron, Thune, etc. Virtual card advantage is still a thing.

Edit: Also, what else do you board out or not board in? It was already 1 YP, 4 cackler, 1 BO, 1 chain, 1 vault.
If you're on the creature plan, you generally force them to use burn spells on your guys because rakdos cackler+friends race burn spells in hand. Repeatable sources of damage vs. finite and all that. This is where you get your window to resolve your walker. If they aren't killing your guys and are
sending everything at the face, either they're hand is insane, or you should win easily becuase there burn plan requires about 7/8 cards(depending on if they drew phoenix's) while your plan only requires that you get in 2/3 times with a cackler an ash zealot swing in, and a token from YP while doing it faster then the opponent.
Ok, so the argument is that you're actively trying to gas both players out. I can see that. Still, what comes in? 8 cards to cut are easy but now we want to bring in 10. I'm assuming the only logical choice is either going down to 2 helix, jet, or zealots. My money on jets.

Edit: Or shocks? No clue at this point. You're 18-20 creatures (counting vault) and 14-16 burn either way. Shrug.

Edit 2: Also, if you cut any more helix, Chandra's ultimate is terrible. You want your shocks for aggression. You want your jets for digging up your 1 of's. You want zealots for the before mentioned gas strategy. Blargh. That said, you're probably not realistically
planning for Chandra's ultimate.

Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:09 am
by MisterMet
If the plan against control and black devotion is to up your creature count to fifteen (along with Assemble the Legion against black devotion) then what about Legion's Initiative as a one-of in the sideboard? It helped a lot against those decks when I was playing Boros aggro pre-BNG since it would speed things up and nullify Jace's +1.

Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:11 am
by Elricity
Legion's initiative wipes your own tokens.

Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:12 am
by LP, of the Fires
Not really high impact enough for me to want to board :/

The package is certainly appealing though(I played it at an SCG).

Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:14 am
by LP, of the Fires
Legion's initiative wipes your own tokens.
You'd play it for the +1 attack power.

@MisterMet: I'm probably actually not bringing in assemble versus control. We have a decent mid/late game vs. them but I'm not trying to take it THAT late.

Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:16 am
by Elricity
Legion's initiative wipes your own tokens.
You'd play it for the +1 attack power.
Not enough creatures, YP or no for that to be worth it.

Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:20 am
by Valdarith
If he kills you when you tap out for Chandra you were losing anyway.
Disagree. Your own helix or removal for attackers changes it from "I just won!" to "Oh shit, my stuff is gone and/or life totals just swung so that now he's killing me!"

Obviously if your hand is just face burn, then yeah, sure but then you're also not telegraphing that to him by tapping out.
What I mean is that if you're at that point in the game where you're baiting out each other's burn spells, you obviously don't play her. But at the mid stages of the game jamming a
Chandra is a very good thing to be doing. A one-of makes this most effective since you don't dilute your main strategy.

Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:25 am
by MisterMet
Legion's initiative wipes your own tokens.
You'd play it for the +1 attack power.
Not enough creatures, YP or no for that to be worth it.
The deck I was running it in had sixteen creatures (four of cackler, zealot, phoenix and dragon) and there wasn't an issue, though I might have been very lucky then.

LP: Agreed about not bringing Assemble against control. I meant that it
and LI were useful together against black devotion.

Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:53 am
by zemanjaski
Picture this:
- you have helix in hand
- I have chandra

Board is empty, we each have 4 mana

Who's favoured?

Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:56 am
by Kaitscralt

Nigga please.

Respect is earned. Wether or not you had it before is irrelevant because you lost it. So again, kindly fuck off sir :lol:
Finding out you're just another Zemmite made me lose respect for you.
I've personally operated on the assumption that your a Kait gimmick.
my gimmicks are female

Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:03 am
by LP, of the Fires
Picture this:
- you have helix in hand
- I have chandra

Board is empty, we each have 4 mana

Who's favoured?
The helix player.

How?

CAUSE HE HAS A MUTAVAULT!

Ah, trick question!!! :crazy:

Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:12 am
by zemanjaski
No more confrontational BS, only I get to do that.

<<<mod

Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:18 am
by LP, of the Fires
I'm a mod too...of the modern forums >_>

Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:21 am
by zemanjaski
This is my domain.