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Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:14 am
by photodyer
16 turn 1 black sources is heaps!
Chances of no T1 black source in your opener is ~10%; chances of no T1 black source if you're playing all swamps is 1.74%. I didn't mean to say it's untenable by any means, but roughly 1 in 10 openers (not accounting for multiple mulls in the same game) will lack a T1 black source. Granted, the whole picture is more complex (comparing chances of having Thoughtseize in your opener in the first place to even make it relevant, etc.), but it simply struck me that the functionality of those non-swamps had to be considered relative to their impact. Sorry that I was unclear as to my pondering.
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:17 am
by zemanjaski
You usually don't want to turn 1 thoughtseize FWIW; its most times better to wait until they have a chance to draw a few more cards so you can nab what you're after. The other consideration is that having the scrylands and the mutavaults gives you so much more power out of your mana base, which really is worth the extra work.
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:32 am
by zemanjaski
Who wants to brew RG Ramp with me? I want to see if I can make
Frenzied Tilling work. I think it is main deckable if people are playing greedy decks. Not sure exactly how i want to build it, but I know I want 4 x Ember Swallower and 2 x Polukranos; these are very resilient creatures with relevant monstrous abilities.
I want to be able to play Anger of the Gods, so that means I can't use the normal ramp options. Need to think about this really.
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:44 am
by Yarpus
Why not ramping into Ruric Thar instead? One mana more. One millenia of being asshole instead.
The only non-creature ramp you have at the moment is Verdant Haven and Keyrunes/Cluestones Zembro.
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:46 am
by zemanjaski
Ruric Thar is six; ill definitely consider it in the 75; but I want to go sweeper > 4 drop > tilling to lock my opponent out of the game.
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:00 pm
by Khaospawn
Went 4-0 tonight with:
[deck]
Creatures
4 Ash Zealot
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Young Pyromancer
Planeswalkers
3 Chandra, Best Card in Standard
Enchantments
2 Chained to the Rocks
Instants
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Shock
Lands
2 Mutavault
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
12 Mountain
1 Plains
Sideboard
2 Boros Charm
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Chained to the Rock
1 Hammer of Purphoros
2 Mizzium Mortars
4 Peak Eruption[/deck]
Very happy with the small changes made so far.
For comments:
vs. Red Aggro, GW or Big Green[/
u]
OUT: 4 Rakdos Cackler, 4 Firedrinker Satyr
IN: 4 Boros Reckoner, 2 Chained to the Rocks, 2 Mizzium Mortars
vs. UW Control, Esper Control
OUT: 3 Shock
IN: 2 Boros Charm, 1 Hammer of Purphoros
This is about as light as I can realistically go; the matchup is still good because I am not maindecking Reckoner
vs. GR Ramp or Naya Midrange
OUT: 4 Rakdos Cackler, 4 Firedrinker Satyr, 4 Ash Zealot
IN: 4 Boros Reckoner, 2 Chained to the Rocks, 2 Mizzium Mortars, 4 Peak Eruption
I was finding Ash Zealot was just getting walled too often by Reckoner (can't combat trick him), Smiter or just Caratyd. Peak Eruption is just brutal against these decks: it picks off planeswalkers, mana screws them, buys time. It is also another spell for Young Pyro, who has a full 18 spells to trigger him now
vs. Dega Midrange or BR Midrange
OUT: 2 Chained to the Rocks, 4 Shock
IN: 2 Boros
Charm, 4 Peak Eruption
I have decided that I will just play through Desecration Demon. I am comfortable doing that with Phoenix, YP and Chandra in my deck. This configuration gives me more free-wins; but also a HUGE amount of burn (2 Boros Charm, 4 Lightning Strike, 4 Magma Jet, 4 Peak Eruption ~ good luck, have fun!
vs. Master of the Waves
OUT: 4 Firedrinker Satyr
IN: 2 Chained to the Rocks, 2 Mizzium Mortars
vs. Big Boros
OUT: 4 Shock, 4 Lightning Strike
IN: 2 Chained to the Rocks, 2 Boros Charm, 4 Peak Eruption
Your sideboard cards are too important; you need Magma Jet to help find them.
Comments, thoughts, opinions all welcome.
Man, that sideboard strategy looks solid.
At first when I saw the list with four Peak Eruptions, I thought that was too many. Nope. Good card is good.
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:04 pm
by Yarpus
Zem, Tilling is far away from 'locking' - it's effect is fine but by no means groundbreaking.
Encroaching Wastes do the same thing - while instead of netting you a land, they cause you to sacrifice one, they ocupy land slot instead of precious spell.
If you are looking for something to ramp into - Clan Defiance is the shit. With something which is basically Mono Blue Skies in the format, dealing with their flying/non-flying/jace with one card is really strong. I've tried some silly deck on Cockatrice - it was 4 Domri 2 Clan Defiance Gruul Creatures. And hell, does it hurt. Nykthos is degenerate in this deck.
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:05 pm
by zemanjaski
Yeah I can see playing some number of Encroaching Wastes in the deck. It is by no means a lock, but it puts you VERY far ahead, and the extra acceleration is super relevant with monstrous in your deck. I don't know that it is good, but it is something I want to try and explore.
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:16 pm
by photodyer
You usually don't want to turn 1 thoughtseize FWIW; its most times better to wait until they have a chance to draw a few more cards so you can nab what you're after. The other consideration is that having the scrylands and the mutavaults gives you so much more power out of your mana base, which really is worth the extra work.
I concur on all points...the times I generally want to hit someone's hand T1 is in a blind G1 where the info can give me the best advantage or in low curve swarms where I can kill their early-turn damage. And while the scrylands and vaults have no doubt earned their spots in the deck, I've learned from this clan (and you in no small measure, good sir) to start approaching decks with cautious consideration of their manabases
rather than getting blinded by the "Ooh neato!" of the deck's intended goals. You've taught me to kick the tires and check under the hood over the past year, James...just looking for any overspray and and Bondo!
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:22 pm
by zemanjaski
Healthy skepticism is good, no doubt.
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:21 pm
by redthirst
Well, congrats to everyone who did well at States - my weekend was significantly less exciting:
Friday - the 9 hour drive to Indiana took 12.5 hours because my GPS decided that it wanted to take nothing but back roads the whole way.
Saturday - 2.5 hour drive to the wedding, pics + wedding took another 3 hours, reception was 3 hours, and 2.5 hour drive back to where we were staying.
Sunday - got up early and reset GPS so the 9 hour drive would only take 9 hours, but due to roadwork, backed-up traffic, and a blowout in Kentucky we got to spend a cool 13 hours on the road instead.
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:29 pm
by Platypus
Is the mana base too shaky on this one? I'm planning for Game Day, and my local meta seems to be full of Anger of the Gods, Aggros, GW and various UW/UB decks.
[deck]
Lands (24)
4 Rakdos Guildgate
4 Blood Crypt
13 Mountain
1 Godless Shrine
2 Orzhov Guildgate
Creatures (20)
4 Ash Zealot
4 Frostburn Weird
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Ember Swallower
Spells (16)
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Dreadbore
2 Doom Blade
2 Hammer of Purphoros
Sideboard (15)
3 Peak Eruption
3 Duress
2 Flames of the Firebrand
2 Doom Blade
2 Desecration Demon
3 Mizzium Mortars
[/deck]
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:32 pm
by photodyer
RT, my GPS pulled that shit on my daughter and I coming back from OH...we were driving in the middle of the %*(%&_# night for hours on 2-lane rural Missouri highways in a part of the state I don't know because the damned thing though it better than running us on interstate into St. Louis and then across on 70 to KC. Never again will I take any GPS plan for granted...
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:41 pm
by photodyer
Is the mana base too shaky on this one? I'm planning for Game Day, and my local meta seems to be full of Anger of the Gods, Aggros, GW and various UW/UB decks.
[deck]
Lands (24)
4 Rakdos Guildgate
4 Blood Crypt
13 Mountain
1 Godless Shrine
2 Orzhov Guildgate
Creatures (20)
4 Ash Zealot
4 Frostburn Weird
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Ember Swallower
Spells (16)
4 Lightning Strike
4 Magma Jet
4 Dreadbore
2 Doom Blade
2 Hammer of Purphoros
Sideboard (15)
3 Peak Eruption
3 Duress
2 Flames of the Firebrand
2 Doom Blade
2 Desecration Demon
3 Mizzium Mortars
[/deck]
Are Orzhov gates just what you have on-hand? I would think Temples if you don't want to play the extra shocks, though the benefit of playing lands
that can cast Reckoner but are locked into CIPT strikes me as sketchy. Only 8 spells and no Chandra to rebuy Phoenix strands it a bit as well.
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:48 pm
by Platypus
Yeah, if I had more Shrines I'd use them instead. I should perhaps drop the BW lands for 1 Mountain and 2 Mutavaults, but I'm unsure if 8 RB lands are enough black for the black spells. BW on turn one is awkward with both Zealot and Weird as well.
8 spells to get Phoenix back isn't ideal either, although there's 5 more in the sideboard.
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:12 pm
by windstrider
z, for your ramp deck, have you considered
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx as a ramp source? It requires a bit of work, but it can be worth it.
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:18 pm
by Helios
Yo GPS, I'm really happy for you, and imma let you finish, but maps have the greatest directions of all time.
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:06 pm
by Link
I think the devotion decks are way too popular to make a G/R tilling build viable. You might just die to judge's familiars while you try to kill their mana <_<
Nykthos, Shrine would be insane though, but wouldnt work with you anger sweeper suite
The dream of Mystic-> BTE+BTE Shrine, frenzied tilling youre on 0 lands im on 3?
Extend hand
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:43 pm
by Khaospawn
Slow today...
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:47 pm
by hamfactorial
Zoom zoom
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:48 pm
by Khaospawn
Suck me, beautiful.
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:51 pm
by hamfactorial
I'm not that kind of mage
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:58 pm
by Khaospawn
Sad face.
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:59 pm
by rcwraspy
Columbus day, so have the day off. It's gorgeous weather here in Boston.
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:01 pm
by Khaospawn
Stupid Columbus.....I bet the mail doesn't even run so Suga won't get his cards today.
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:03 pm
by Helios
Columbus day sales: Where you go to a faraway store and take whatever you like. For bonus points, leave behind infectious disease.
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:06 pm
by LP, of the Fires
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdat ... ckID=59867
Must build this deck. Pod in Legacy? Sign me the fuck up.
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:11 pm
by redthirst
Columbus day sales: Where you go to a faraway store and take whatever you like. For bonus points, leave behind infectious disease.
Err day's Columbus Day.
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:26 pm
by hamfactorial
Honey Columbus don't care, he takes what he wants.
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:39 pm
by TubeHunter
Sweet deck. it is my next legacy project. You have never lived until you Recurring nightmare loop someone out of the game with acidic slime and baleful strix. Draw 3 cards a turn + blow up 2 lands a turn... so sick
Problem with it is, it has a hard time beating show and tell. While its a bit better vs omnihalls, you really can't beat sneak and show. Thats why if I would play a nic fit type deck, i would play scape wish instead. Slaughter games naming omniecines/emmrakul. Go fuck yourself show and tell.
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:48 pm
by TubeHunter
I feel sad for modern players, you have never had the chance to 2-1 someone with baleful strix yet...
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:30 pm
by Jack
Sweet deck. it is my next legacy project. You have never lived until you Recurring nightmare loop someone out of the game with acidic slime and baleful strix. Draw 3 cards a turn + blow up 2 lands a turn... so sick
Being on the receiving end is no fun. I felt like I was playing pretty well for my first games with a real Legacy deck and trying to put down just enough to keep my board presence and inevitability up but
not risk everything, and you just go and Murderous Redcap all of my combo pieces and then go off with a Recurring Nightmare chain with it and Baelful Strix three times per turn while I struggle to find a combo for the fifth time. That said, it seems fun as hell to pilot. Could I see your list?
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:07 pm
by TubeHunter
It was originally Caleb Durwad's list. I keep tinkering with it but i keep coming back to the original.
[deck]1 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
4 Forest
1 Island
2 Swamp
2 Bayou
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Phyrexian Tower
// Creatures
1 Eternal Witness
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
4 Baleful Strix
4 [Veteran Explorer
3 [Deathrite Shaman
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Grave Titan
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Acidic Slime
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Thragtusk
1 Deceiver Exarch
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Shriekmaw
// Spells
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Recurring Nightmare
4 Birthing Pod
2 Pernicious Deed
4 Brainstorm
// Sideboard
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Negate
3 Thoughtseize
1 Sadistic Hypnotist
1 Arcane Laboratory
1 Notion Thief
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Golgari Charm[/deck]
The deck suprisingly enough isn't that expensive by legacy standards.
Too bad caleb gave up on it.
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:11 pm
by Alex
I was dicking around with basically the same list (I wasn't playing Recurring Nightmare because I forgot it existed) because I think I was playing Volrath's Stronghold in that spot instead or something.
I really like Birthing Pod, I played it a lot in Standard when Zendikar was still around. But it feels kind of soft in Legacy - you aren't great at beating Stoneblade and I'm not sure you can ever beat Miracles unless you manage to slam an early pod EVERY time.
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:19 pm
by zemanjaski
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:19 pm
by TubeHunter
I'm not saying that it is the best Nic Fit deck. I f I wanted to play a nic fit deck in a tournament, i would play scapewish. But I already have a deck that I would play in a big event, so it would be nice to have a mostly competitive deck for fun.
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:24 pm
by zemanjaski
How's the knee redbro?
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:32 pm
by TubeHunter
Hurts less now, just kind of there. I go back to the doctor next week to discuss surgery. Just sucks to miss the playoffs of football my senior year. There is no way I am not playing college football now, though I guess it depends on if the coach still wants me.
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:34 pm
by redthirst
TH used to be an adveturer...
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:36 pm
by TubeHunter
... until i tore my acl, lateral meniscus, and papatil muscles during a school sponsored athletic event.