[Fedoras of Salvation] - White Knights ITT

[zemanjaski]

It's not for everyone. I don't enjoy casual formats either but so what, if people do then more power to them.

[Platypus]

Yes, of course. A big part of the success of Magic is the fact that you can play it just about any way you want. There's always a variant that can appeal to you if you don't like constructed/limited/commander/cube/whatever.

[Khaospawn]

I'm sick in the head when I play EDH. I'd rather durdle around to see what everyone's deck can do, but knowing damn well I'm not ever going to to let them win. Sometimes I'll pit people against each other and watch them take each other out, but in the end, I'll end the game in the blink of an eye with Nin the Pain Artist.

Come to think of it, I think I'm the Emperor Palpatine of the EDH table.

[Platypus]

I don't mind the casual aspect of EDH, it's the drawn out games I don't like. If I'm going to sit at a table för 2-4 hours playing a multiplayer game I'd rather play a good boardgame, like the awesome Age of Steam.

Edit: Should I remove the umlaut or not?

[TBuzzsaw]

New updated list:

[deck]
Creatures
4 Experiment One
4 Spike Jester
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Dreg Mangler
2 Boon Satyr
1 Herald of Torment
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
3 Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch
3 Stormbreath Dragon

Spells
1 Xenagos, the Reveler
3 Domri Rade
2 Dreadbore
1 Ultimate Price
2 Golgari Charm

Lands
4 Blood Crypt
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Stomping Ground
4 Temple of Malice
4 Temple of Abandon
2 Mutavault
1 Forest
1 Swamp

Sideboard
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
2 Lifebane Zombie
2 Doom Blade
2 Golgari Charm
1 Dreadbore
4 Thoughtseize
2 Dark Betrayal[/deck]

The single Herald of Torment is a test. I want to find something in that slot that could work that isn't Fanatic of Xenagos.

[Dechs Kaison]

I don't mind the casual aspect of EDH, it's the drawn out games I don't like. If I'm going to sit at a table för 2-4 hours playing a multiplayer game I'd rather play a good boardgame, like the awesome Age of Steam.

I totally get this. That's one of the reasons I prefer the more competitive tables. If we've been playing for an hour, someone better be damn near to ending the game.

[DerWille]

I played EDH once. I borrowed a friend's mono-white cat deck thing. Then a guy at the table started taking 20 minute turns and I knew I was dead as he searched through his deck and combo'd off. I got so bored that I swore I'd never play EDH again.

And before someone says, "But you need to find good people to play with!" Any sort of game that requires extensive house rules and even more unwritten rules to function isn't much of a game. Still, it's really popular at one of my local game stores. There's probably 12-20 people who only play EDH.

[Dechs Kaison]

And before someone says, "But you need to find good people to play with!" Any sort of game that requires extensive house rules and even more unwritten rules to function isn't much of a game.

You do need to find the right group, but in my mind, that's one without any house or unwritten rules.

[Platypus]

I don't have a good regular play group either. If EDH would have been more popular when we had a bunch of players around every week for Magic tuesdays (that was 15 years ago...) then we probably would have played it.

[Lightning_Dolt]

I only play EDH with my close friends in Canada. Our only house rule is no land destruction. Everything else is fair game, but we have a pretty good read on what is fun and what isn't for us.

I once played with some legacy players with completely degenerate decks that were just like, mono-LD which was no fun at all.

You can be a spike and still play fairly.

[Dechs Kaison]

I only play EDH with my close friends in Canada. Our only house rule is no land destruction. Everything else is fair game, but we have a pretty good read on what is fun and what isn't for us.

I once played with some legacy players with completely degenerate decks that were just like, mono-LD which was no fun at all.

You can be a spike and still play fairly.

As a counter-example: I once played in a group that only had one rule, no MLD.

The group was overrun by boring G/x ramp-derp decks.

You don't have to be a spike to be a dick.

[redthirst]

You don't have to be a spike to be a dick.

Doesn't hurt, though.

[Valdarith]

No baby yet, so I still have my hopes up for the PTQ. I'm wondering if I should make the switch from Gr monsters to Jund monsters for the PTQ though. It's basically the same deck with Reaper of the Wilds main and a better sideboard so it's not like I'd be switching archetypes at the last minute. Seems to improve a lot of matchups including the mirror. What say you, FoS?

[redthirst]

Gr

Slight gain in power not worth significant loss of consistency. Of course, I could probably give you a more well thought-out answer if I knew what the decks' 75s looked like.

[windstrider]

Love the new avatar, red. She's perky.

[Khaospawn]

Boobies!

[Kaitscralt]

you called

[windstrider]

Naked Boobies

Boobies!

---

[Valdarith]

Gr

Slight gain in power not worth significant loss of consistency. Of course, I could probably give you a more well thought-out answer if I knew what the decks' 75s looked like.

[deck]Gr Monsters[/deck]

[
deck=Jund Monsters]
Creatures (25)
4 Elvish Mystic
3 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Courser of Kruphix
2 Boon Satyr
4 Reaper of the Wilds
3 Polukranos, World Eater
4 Stormbreath Dragon
1 Xenagos, God of Revels

Spells (13)
2 Dreadbore
3 Mizzium Mortars
4 Domri Rade
2 Xenagos, the Reveler

Lands (24)
2 Mutavault
4 Temple of Abandon
2 Temple of Malice
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Stomping Ground
4 Blood Crypt
4 Forest

Sideboard (15)
3 Mistcutter Hydra
2 Ultimate Price
2 Dreadbore
2 Golgari Charm
2 Gruul Charm
1 Mizzium Mortars
2 Sire of Insanity
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
[/deck]

[redthirst]

Yeah, I like the first one. The removal in Jund is significantly better and I don't think you'll have a lot of issues with colored mana in either, but I'd still side with consistency.

[Valdarith]

The big upside to Jund is that your Gr Monsters and UW Control matchups become SIGNIFICANTLY better. UW control postboard is favorable for Gr anyway but the Gr mirror is such a coinflip match and that's something I generally prefer avoiding. Jund vs Gr is very favorable for Jund because of Reaper. It also makes the UW and mono black preboard games more favorable.

What Gr has that Jund lacks is explosiveness. Being able to run two Xenagod main is so amazing, and running two extra planeswalkers on top of that postboard is big game. Also, only running 4 shocks as opposed to 12 gives some leverage back to Gr in a Monsters mirror.

Perhaps the biggest get for Jund is the mono blue matchup. It has a TON of game against that deck postboard whereas Gr seems unfavorable against it. Dreadbore, Ultimate Price, Golgari Charm, and Gruul Charm postboard is a huge beating.

[Purp]

I think you will start seeing a lot more mono U as well as mono B (preparing with doom blades and ultimate price.) I think Jund Monsters is slightly better positioned, at least for this upcoming weekend.

[Captain Murphy]

Hey guys, I have 3 spots left in my mafia game and really need the players, if anyone is interested I'd love to have you play!

[redthirst]

How would you compare the consistency of the Jund version with 6 Scry lands and 4 Reaper to the Gruul version? I have no experience with Jund Monsters, but the more I look at it the more I think it might even be more consistent than Gr which would pretty well negate my objections.

[Self Medicated]

Currently hiding in my cube so I don't have to go to my company's quarterly meeting.

Thinking about sneaking out of the building. God I hate meetings.

[redthirst]

I can guide you.

---

But you must do exactly as I say.

---

[Self Medicated]

Fuck it. I'm walking out the front door like a boss.

[redthirst]

The cubicle across from you is empty.

---

Go! NOW!

[Valdarith]

How would you compare the consistency of the Jund version with 6 Scry lands and 4 Reaper to the Gruul version? I have no experience with Jund Monsters, but the more I look at it the more I think it might even be more consistent than Gr which would pretty well negate my objections.

Kent Ketter referred to it as a "free splash".

-4 Forest, +4 Overgrown Tomb

-5 Mountain, +4 Blood Crypt, +1 Temple of Malice

That's pretty much it. I decided to go up a land and cut two Forest for two Mutavault and another Temple of Malice, but that still leaves me with 12 untapped green sources for turn one Mystic. I prefer 14, but I think the greediness is justified for a PTQ. If you count the Caryatids I'm running 13 black sources and 17 red
sources which should be more than enough to cast Reaper and Stormbreath Dragon on curve.

I've watched Cedric Phillips pilot the deck for the past couple of days and it is REALLY good. If Gr gets more popular and people start to play more mono blue to counter, this is the deck I want to be playing.

[redthirst]

Fuck it. I'm walking out the front door like a boss.

There are two ways out of this building. One is the scaffold, the other is the front door. You take a chance either way. I leave it to you.

[redthirst]

Fair enough, Val. I do really like Reaper and Dreadbore so if you're not losing anything by going to a third color then yeah... I guess that's probably the call.

[Self Medicated]

While everyone is distracted in the cafeteria, I casually stroll out the front door without a care in the world. Peace out.

[LP, of the Fires]

Played at a GPT last weekend and Gruul and Jund monsters where everywhere. Top 4 when I left?

2 Mono-Black, Boros Burn, and UW control. I don't have much of an opinion on which deck is better though as I'd have to figure out what deck wins the mirror, and that usually takes testing.

[DerWille]

Boom!

http://www.channelfireball.com/videos/c ... d-rw-aggro

I'm still working my way through this but I'm noticing a habit that might cost you games. In match 2, game 1 at 3:39, your opponent taps out to make a pack rat and activate mutavault. You could have won that turn by letting the Ash Zealot die, Phoenix deal damage and then use the two lightning strikes in hand for the remaining 6 damage. I remember watching you do the same thing in match 1 but you saw it in retrospect.

Still liking the videos. I like how you go through all of the lines of play you're thinking of. I hadn't considered bringing in Satyr
Firedancer vs Black (I figured it would die too quick).

[Valdarith]

Jund is favored over Gr simply because of Reaper of the Wilds preboard and terrors postboard. That said, CVM did beat Ketter's Jund last week but it took a mull to five in game one from Ketter and an explosive opener in game two to do it. If Jund resolves an early Reaper it's very hard for Gr to push through, and Reaper is huge against UW and mono black.

[Purp]

Jund Monsters is the better call this weekend. Black will adapt to bring in doom blades and ultimate price. Why not play Reaper which can't be killed by either

[zemanjaski]

Boom!

http://www.channelfireball.com/videos/c ... d-rw-aggro

I'm still working my way through this but I'm noticing a habit that might cost you games. In match 2, game 1 at 3:39, your opponent taps out to make a pack rat and activate mutavault. You could have won that turn by letting the Ash Zealot die, Phoenix deal damage and then use the two lightning strikes in hand for the remaining 6 damage. I remember watching you do the same thing in match 1 but you
saw it in retrospect.

Still liking the videos. I like how you go through all of the lines of play you're thinking of. I hadn't considered bringing in Satyr Firedancer vs Black (I figured it would die too quick).

I found it really hard to commentate and play at the same time; so yeah, instead of just winning I got a 2-for-1 and left my opponent on zero outs; it's less clean and about twenty people have pointed it out to me, but I think ill get more comfortable talking and playing after a few more run throughs.

[hamfactorial]

I love to stream for the exact opposite reason. Left to the voices in my head, I default to the first play that comes to mind instead of exploring alternate lines. I often play better on stream than alone, but I get into clock trouble interacting with the chat. why can't life be easy?

[zemanjaski]

Streaming never really affected me because:
1. My audience was tiny
2. It wasn't done "professionally"

Stakes are a little higher now but hopefully ill rise to the occasion.

[DerWille]

@Zman, completely understandable. It is hard to talk and do anything that requires a substantial amount of thought.